tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 13 16:15:09 1998
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Re: KLBC:Re: My first try at tlhIngan Hol KLBC
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC:Re: My first try at tlhIngan Hol KLBC
- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:12:35 -0700
At 02:24 98-04-13 -0700, Englebert wrote:
}Qov wrote:
}>
}> At 06:14 98-04-12 -0700, QomwI' wrote:
}>
}> I feel like the censor, intercepting correspondence between Klingons. :)
}
}law' wIjQaghmey vaj *censor* yIpongbe'egh 'ach mughwI' yIpongqu'egh ;-)
}
}> }*Vlaardingen*Daq jIboghpu'.
}>
}> Although the idiom for "years old" uses the perfective, there is no reason
}> to suspect that {bogh} takes the perfective at other times. I believe you
}> are attempting to use the perfective to denote simple past tense. Let
}> context indicate your tenses. {V.Daq jIbogh} "I was born in V."
}
}I think I got the point. It's physically and logically impossible to say
}"I am being born, I will be born, etc." and stick to reality at the same
}time, so why bother to put this sentence in the right tense, mostly
}because there is no such thing in Klingon.
The sentence IS in the right tense.
It also means "I will be born in V." and "I am born in V." It isn't a
matter of bothering. As it's logically pretty bizarre to say "I will be
born in V." and "I am born in V." amounts to the same thing as "I was born
in V.," {V.Daq jIbogh} MEANS "I was born in V."
You have something stuck in your head that tells you to use the perfective
for anything completed in the past. If the point of the verb is on the
completion, be it past, present or future completion, use the perfective.
If the point is the action of the verb, be that action in the past present
or future, don't use the perfective.
}> }wejmaH Soch ben jIboghpu'.
}>
}> maj.
}>
}> }*Vlaardingen*Daq jIghojta'.
}>
}> "I have learned in V.?" I wonder if this is a Dutch/English thing. In
}> English "learned" means that you learned something there, which you do most
}> places while "studied" is the term used to indicate a course of deliberate
}> learning, like in a school. I assume that the English translations of
}> {ghoj} and {HaD} reflect this, and I would say. {V.Daq jIHaD} "I studied
in V."
}
}I have been thinking about this and I found it hard to make a decision.
}I chose for {ghoj} since I found the word {ghojwI'} for "student"
}(=someone who is involved in deliberate learning, like in a school). I
}used {-ta'} to indicate that I passed the final exams.
If you want to tell him about completing your studies in V., fine. If you
want to tell him about studying in V., don't use the perfective.
}> }DuSaQvamvaD *Westland-Zuid* ponglu'pu'.
}>
}> Did they change the name? Why the perfective? {ponglu'} "was called"
}
}I deliberately used the perfective because I don't know if this school
}still exists.
The perfective would imply that you know the name has been changed, that you
wanted to tell him about the completion of its being named that.
{DuSaQvaD W-Z ponglu'} "The school was called W-Z." That's all you need.
}> }*Maassluis* jIDabpu'.
}>
}> {M. vIDab} "I lived in M." The place inhabited is the object of {Dab}. No
}> perfective.
}
}No perfective because from the context (I moved to Amsterdam) it is
}clear that I don't live in M. anymore?
No perfective because the tense you want is simple past.
{M. vIDab.} "I live in M., I lived in M., I will live in M."
{M. vIDabpu'} "I had lived in M., I have lived in M., I will have lived in M.}
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian