tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 11 13:04:26 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
RE: The Four Questions
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: The Four Questions
- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:01:59 -0700
At 23:05 98-04-09 -0700, Tad wrote:
}> From: Garrett Michael Hayes[SMTP:[email protected]]
}jangbe'lu'law'mo' 'ej bImoDnISmo' vuDwIj vInob.
I was hoping someone had saved the result of this discussion from some
previous year. When the holiday is over I'm sure ghunchu'wI' or Seqram will
post what has been decided on.
}> --- The Four Questions in tlhIngan Hol ----
}> qatlh Hoch rammey pIm ramvam?
}>
}Although {Hoch rammey} means "all nights" and not "all other nights,"
}this is probably the way I'd translate it. Something more "accurate"
}like {Hoch latlh rammey} seems awkward to me.
I think the original is quite deliberately explicit, so I would say the full
{Hoch latlh rammey}. The English could have been "all others" but isn't.
Seqram will have translated it from the original Hebrew, which is the only
reasonable way to do it, so I'll not comment further on interpretations,
just grammar.
}Also, {pIm} is glossed as
}"be different" rather than "be different from (something)", so the 2
}things being compared would probably be the subject. Therefore I'd
}prefer {qatlh pIm ramvam Hoch rammey je}.
Good point.
}> Hoch rammeyDaq tIr ror tIr rorbe' joq wISop maH.
}> qatlh ramvamDaq tIr rorbe' neH wISop maH?
}I suppose that {ror} would be a good choice for leavened, without
}getting into the technicalities of *how* bread is leavened. Any reason
}why you chose {ror} instead of {pI'}? Maybe {pI'} refers to something
}that is stout and fat horizontally, as in the hidden joke of {runpI'},
}and so {ror} would be something vertically fat, like bread that would be
}"fat upwards".
Plus {tIr} is the grain, not the grain ground, mixed with fat and moisture
and baked. I use {tIr Soj} for bread. {ror} is a pretty damn good way of
concisely cutting through the chemistry and physics of leavening.
}In this and the other questions, I think that using {-Daq} with {ram}
}isn't the best because {-Daq} is used for location and direction, not
}time. Maybe something similar to {qaStaHvIS Hochrammey} would be better.
Simpler. {ramvam wISop} "we eat it this night." To refer to an event at a
time, just use the time word. {po maHu'} "we get up in the morning."
Consider using {DISop} when the object is {tIr ror tIr rorbe' joq} because
it's either one or the other or both. I'm couldn't say if this is a plural
concept or a singular one, but I'm sure Klingons have a rule.
}> Hoch rammeyDaq Hoch naHmey DISop maH.
}> qatlh ramvamDaq naHmey wIbqu' DISop maH?
Again don't use the {-Daq} on times.
}I'm not sure how close to the idea of "herbs" you could convey using
}{pID} (to coat with herbed mixture) or {ngat} (herbed granulated
}cartilage), but it might be more accurate than {naHmey}. Then again,
}since the next question talks of dipping herbs in condiments, {naHmey},
}still might be preferable. {pID} & {ngat} are in KGT in the food argot
}section, you could see if it gives a more detailed explanation of herbs
}there.
I'm against pulling out any word that happens to have "herb" in the
definition. These seem to be whole leaves we're taking about, indeed {por}
might be the word to use. The divisions between different types of foods are
pretty arbitrary between languages. Lets see the Hebrew.
}> Hoch rammeyDaq naHmey DItlhorghmoHbe' maH
}> qatlh ramvamDaq bIH vutmeH bIQ na' <haroses> je DIlo' maH?
}>
}I think that the way you used {DItlhorghmoHbe'} to convey the meaning of
}condiments here is great.
{bIH DIvutmeH}
}> Hoch rammeyDaq maSop 'ej yupma' le' wImaqbe' maH.
}> qatlh ramvamDaq <Sedar> tayvam wIchoq maH?
}>
}I don't know if there's a better word than {choq} that you could use to
}indicate the celebration of the service.. Of course, to me {choq}
}suggests that the service is being held to preserve a tradition, rather
}than celebrate an event, which is what you may want to use.
I agree. Consider {taHmoH} and {lop}.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian