tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 30 08:08:02 1996

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Re: KLBC - Trick or Treat

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>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 07:54:09 -0800
>From: Marc Paige <[email protected]>
>
>SojnobHom HInob pagh qatojqang!

>Thanks for catching that. I had written it down wrong
>and then copied it from the paper without thinking.

I still think "SojnobHom" is way too heavy for the concept.  It's "Soj",
right?  Just call it that.

>>Why not "yuch"?  How about DaH yuch HInob!
>>Give me chocolate NOW!
>
>I still want to convey the thought of the "trick"
>portion of the greeting. And besides, some people
>don't give chocolate!

Then they should be tricked no matter what they give. :)

>What about the use of the <qang> suffix? My intent
>here is that the masked individual is willing to
>do a trick as opposed to definitely doing a trick.
>I would have used:
>
>SojnobHom chonobbe'chugh vaj qatojbej!
>
>(A quick question, could I have used HI instead of cho?)

Probably not.  Imperatives don't mix well with "if" clauses, to my ear.
"If" is giving you a choice, and imperatives take it away.  They don't
belong together (now, an imperative in the *result* clause is something
altogether different).  -bej sounds a little better than -qang; unmarked is
also fine.  Somehow saying "If you don't give me a treat, I'd be willing to
decieve you" sounds like a very watered-down threat to me.  "Great, I have
to fear making you *willing*??"  If you're going to threaten that you're
going to do something, say you'll DO it, not that you'd be willing to do
it.

>Of course I could have used the <bej> suffix on the first
>greeting as well. But as I already said, my intent
>was to convey the willingness to trick.
>
>A friend just suggested that I use <jaj>
>
>So it would be:
>
>SojnobHom HInob pagh qatojjaj!

I don't like -jaj for this.  "If you don't give me a treat, may-it-be that
I trick you!"  Sounds like a prayer to Kahless instead of a threat.  "-jaj"
doesn't mean "maybe" and it doesn't mean "might."  It means more like "may
it be so!"  It's a wish.

>One last question, is the original expression
>"I will trick you if you don't give me a treat"
>or
>"I won't trick you if you give me a treat"
>or
>"You choose, I trick you or you give me a treat"
>or
>some other permutation.

A fine question.  I think I've heard it was actually closer to the last.
Hell, maybe it was even "Trick me or give me a treat"!  It hardly matters;
at this point it doesn't mean anything at all aside from "Hi there!  I'm on
your doorstep on Hallowe'en night in a costume and holding a bag.  I'm
doing *my* end of a cultural ritual. [you gonna do yours?]"  By that
logic, a literal translation probably doesn't make much sense.

~mark

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