tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 17 06:15:30 1996

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Re: ghoS or jaH with Go to Jail..?


Stefan Annernds <[email protected]> writes:
\ Let me explain further:  I'm going to [the] school. I'm going to
\ the school.  In the first sentence it is implied that I'm a student,
\ true, one can use "the" in this sentence. The institution. 
\ In the second sentence it could be a parent 
\ going to a PTA meeting. The building.
Keep in mind that this use of "the" is subject to variation even within
English.  Note British "He's in hospital" vs. American "He's in the
hospital."  In the US, the latter is used even when a particular
hospital is not under consideration; similarly a piece of equipment may
be "in the shop" even if it's not in any shop but merely sitting on the
desk awaiting repair.

Such phrases are by their very nature idiomatic.  When we, in English,
say that someone is "going to jail" (without the "the"), we don't mean
that they are currently in the process of travelling toward a place of
incarceration. We simply mean that they are going to be imprisoned. If
I meant to say, in Klingon, that someone were going to be imprisoned, I
would probably not say either {bIghHa'Daq jaH} or {bIghHa'[Daq] ghoS},
but something like {qama' mojlI'} (or simply {qama' ghaH}).  I would
only use one of the jaH/ghoS sentences in a case where I would use
"the" in English: "S/He is going to the jail".

As far as the difference between {ghoS} and {jaH}, I had assumed from
the glosses that the difference between them in Klingon is rather
similar to the difference between "go" and "approach" in English.  Too
many times I see people wondering about the differences between two
similar Klingon words without stopping to consider the fact that they
have two different English glosses - find the difference in English,
and you may find the difference in Klingon.

However, the example in the phrase section seems to contradict that
interpretation; I read {bIghHa'Daq yIghoS} as "Approach toward the
jail!" - redundant, and not quite the same connotation as "Go to jail!"
But while the translations in the phrase section frequently seem poor,
they are part of TKD, so I don't think we can dismiss them out of hand.
It *could* be that the only significant difference between {jaH} and
{ghoS} is that the latter implies the locative (TKD 3.3.5), while the
former does not.  This still fails to explain the presence of {-Daq} on
{bIghHa'} in the example under discussion.   Call it a typo and move on? :)

One comment on your sentences: the {-taH} suffix is not necessary, but
if I were going to use an aspect suffix at all, I would have used
{-lI'} instead, since the act of going or approaching has a definite
goal, and will presumably stop when the subject arrives at the
destination.

-marqoS




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