tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 12 08:16:12 1996

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To greet or not to greet? The canonical question

nuqneH

In the spirit of  "bI'IQchugh yIvang" 

I keep seeing newcomers to this listing being "corrected" when  they 
make their very first Klingon statement: the dreaded nuqneH.

This sort of thing seems to happen all the time:

>>QrIS writes:
>>nuqneH
>I don't know.  What do *you* want? :-) (see below)
>Why start with anything except what you have to say?  Be bold!  Be direct!

Often the criticism it's rather harsher than that.

I wouldn't be surprised if some newcomers don't bother to come back
a second time after such a response to their greeting..

I don't think that personal opinions about the Klingon language
should be forced on to new subscribers in this way as if it were,
dare I say it? -  canon. 

Following a previous incident, I wrote to the listing a few weeks
ago seeking illumination as to why using nuqneH in this way was
considered incorrect usage by some people on this listing. 

I wasted a lot of time trying to find anything in the TKD or the 
tapes to back up the line that nuqneH shouldn't be used in the way 
illustrated above.. 

I found nothing of the sort.

The very first page  in TKD:
What do you want? (greeting) nuqneH

p97 nuqneH what do you want? (greeting) (excl)
Clearly it's an exclamation not just a literal  question.

Conversational Klingon: "nuqneH is the ONLY greeting."

As I mentioned before, in the KLI's restored Hamlet there are many
instances where nuqneH is used as a conversation opener. eg. Act I
scene II, Horey'So, on entering, says to Hamlet (who is already
there), "nuqneH joH quv!".Important point here being that it is
Horey'So who is the incomer and he is the one who says nuqneH, not
Hamlet, who incidentally, does not say "I don't know, what do *you*
want Horey'So?" :-)

Whilst nobody replied directly to my request for illumination on this
topic, or my comment about the above quote from Hamlet, there was
some debate on the subject.

What others have said against nuqneH as a greeting seemes to boil
down to this: 

1) Earthers don't normally say "What do you want?" to
open a conversation, therefore neither would Klingons. (this is a 
rather Earthly viewpoint, besides it's taking the greeting too 
literally)

2) Klingons wouldn't waste time with "greetings". (why do they have one 
then?)

3) If it ever was used as a greeting it would only be expressed *to*
the incomer not *by* the newcomer, as in a bartender to a customer
(However, see ref to Hamlet above)

These  sorts of argument seem to be entirely based on opinion.
On the other hand, canon, states that nuqneH is *the* Klingon greeting.

Therefore I suggest, whilst one may choose not to use nuqneH, one
shouldn't criticise others who may choose to do so.

It seems to me that if people don't like what Marc Okrand has
written they should get him to change his language rather than
criticise people who use it correctly - by the book.

If one were to encounter one of the natives in the Capital of the
land where English originated he might well say to you "Wotcher?" I
don't think it would be sensible to then say to him "You shouldn't
say that as a greeting!" It certainly wouldn't encourage him to talk
with you further, and he'd probably assume you were an ignorant
foreigner who didn't understand the language.. 

Point being, if someone comes on this listing and uses the Klingon
language correctly, I don't think he should be told that he's wrong
just because some Earthers don't think it sounds right to them.

Seemingly the Klingons do use nuqneH as a greeting, it's one of the
first things in the TKD. It's one of the first phrases one learns.

Note that it is not "nuq neH"  it is a word in it's own right. 

I  could imagine an non-Earther asking, "Why do you say Hi?". Fact
is, we do, and that's all there is to it. That's how the language is
spoken - you don't need to be concerned with derivations or whys and
wherefores. 

I don't believe the usage of nuqneH as a conversation opener has to 
be justified, there seems to be no reason why it shouldn't be used in 
this way. If you still don't agree, however,  consider the following 
interpretation:.

Why not think of nuqneH as being like the English "At your service".
I know a Klingon probably wouldn't want to be so servile. That's why
he says nuqneH instead. It sounds more direct, more aggressive, but
essential it can have the same type of meaning. Hence in Hamlet, it
is said to a superior as a greeting, just as one might say "At
your service, my lord" or the like. . This makes it very appropriate 
to use as an introductory greeting on this listing.

Don't take "nuqneH"  so literally.

tlhIngan maH!

-jaj.

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