tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 04 09:45:36 1996

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Re: Doubled glottal stops

 # Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:09:10 -0700
 # From: [email protected]
 # Subject: Re: Doubled glottal stops

 # In a message dated 96-06-03 10:02:42 EDT, Sa' qIQwI' wrote:
 # >>Apparently, Klingons do not pronounce doubled glottal stops twice. 
 # >Okrand is no Klingon, he's just a American - you can't
 # >expect an American to handle glottal stops 100% correctly.
 # >
 # >Do as he *says*, not as he *does*... (c;

 # You can only expect *linguists* to handle glottal stops 100% correctly,
Can I?  Allow me to be sceptical. Many skilled linguists I've
been corresponding with say that they have some particular
sound they can't pronounce even though they might have managed
perfectly with some sounds they have only read descriptions from
a book. One can't do alveolar trill, one can't do Russian "bl",
one has difficulties with retroflexes, one can't make distinction
between short and long vowels...

You want to hear glottal stops -- I'd like to hear Okrand
pronounce syllable-final r's as he has discribed: as alveolar
trills.  (Right..?)  His 'ar sounds to me like American "are". 
(His r in rup and ghargh sounds OK.)  BTW  ghogh1.zip  is an 
excellent sample, be praised whoever is speaking (available on 
KLI ftp).

 # And he *doesn't* say how to handle doubled glottal stops.
 # If he did, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Oh... I have always assumed that Klingon is pronounced as it's
written, so it never occurred to me to think of glottal stop in
particular. Don't they behave like other stops when doubled?
qq, tt, pp... why not?

Well, now that I've been thinking about this again, I must admit
you're question is justified -- there *is no* definite answer,
and I'm glad you brought this up.
But why you ask about glottal stops when Okrand doesn't say
anything about ANY doubled stop? Or more accurately: He says
nothing about handling syllable-closing stops. All examples
given in TKD are syllable-initial Cvc/Cv stops.
                                  ^   ^
TKD says:

(p) "It is ALWAYS articulated with a strong puff or pop, never laxly."

ALWAYS suggests that also syllable-final stops are released qar'a'.

(q) "The sound is USUALLY accompanied by a slight puff of air."

Usually is a non-informative expression and most *inaccurate*.
Does it suggest for example that syllable-final q's are
unreleased?  "Usually" suggests that the q is puffed in most
cases, so the best hit ratio without knowing when is to puff
always.

(t) "like p, it is accompanied by a puff of air;"

ALWAYS too?

Without any intermediate sounds (like schwa) the options are few.
Many Terran languageS treat doubled stops: first is unreleased,
the second is a release and there's a pause between them. Or they
aren't *really* doubled, merely spelt that way.
For me, I decided that my Terran accent is good enough until I
find a native who is willing to instruct me with fine-tuning;
I pronounce syllable-final stops unreleased and expect to become
understood by a speaker of any tlhIngan dialect. After all TKD
says: "it should be noted, however, that Klingons do not worry
about this. [articulation of p]"

 # >Finnish:  Ota aihe!  sounds like 'ota' 'ayhe'
 # >You can easily hear four glottal stops.
 # Finnish is not Klingon. 
No, but knowing Finnish is certainly helpful, especially with
sentence structure. Just wanted to demonstrate that GS can be
initial, final or doubled and offer an example of a NatLang.

 # Just because it occurs in Finnish (and since I don't speak 
 # Finnish, I'll just have to take your word for it)
If I'd find a microphone, I could record a .WAV file and put 
it on my tlhIngan Hol page for you to listen for yourself. 
Well, that's not relevant to Klingon anyway...

 # doesn't mean it occurs in Klingon. 
Surely you realize that wasn't the idea.

 > *America*ngan jIH 'ej *America*nganpu' DatIchpu'mo'
*American*ngan SoHchugh qatlh "jutIchpu'mo'" Dajatlhbe'

 > ('ej *America*nganpu' DatIchtaHqu'mo'), qaqIch!
jISaHbe'
tlhIngan Hol Dubghach SIghbe'bej

 > pIj mapupHa'bej, 'ach Human maH neH.
jIHvaD chu'be' De'vam
chojatlhvIS malja' yIjatlhtaH jay'

 > qatlh *America*nganpu' DamuStaH?
jang Dayu'ghach

*America* HolvaD mujatlhmoH *America*nganpu'
reH *America*Daq *America* Hol jatlh *Suomi*nganpu'
reH *Suomi*Daq *America* Hol jatlh *America*nganpu'
yajlaHbe'mo' *Suomi* Hol vIjatlh 'e' tuchtaH *America*nganpu'
latlh qo'nganpu' tIchtaH vay' *America*nganpu'
Hur *America* mIchDaq jabbI'ID wIchenmoH vIneH
qIQwI' jIH jay'  9c:{{

 > qatlh nIghIjtaH *America*nganpu'?
'oHvIp 'Iv
vetlh vIparchugh 'oH vIHoHchu'

 > SuStel
 > Hovjaj 96424.1

Sa' qIQwI'

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