tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 05 19:25:12 1996
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Re: Doubled glottal stops
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>Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:50:22 -0700
>From: [email protected] (Sami Laitala)
> # Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:09:10 -0700
> # From: [email protected]
> # Subject: Re: Doubled glottal stops
> # In a message dated 96-06-03 10:02:42 EDT, Sa' qIQwI' wrote:
> # >>Apparently, Klingons do not pronounce doubled glottal stops twice.
> # >Okrand is no Klingon, he's just a American - you can't
> # >expect an American to handle glottal stops 100% correctly.
> # >
> # >Do as he *says*, not as he *does*... (c;
> # You can only expect *linguists* to handle glottal stops 100% correctly,
>You want to hear glottal stops -- I'd like to hear Okrand
>pronounce syllable-final r's as he has discribed: as alveolar
>trills. (Right..?) His 'ar sounds to me like American "are".
>(His r in rup and ghargh sounds OK.) BTW ghogh1.zip is an
>excellent sample, be praised whoever is speaking (available on
>KLI ftp).
That would be Guido#1/ghuy'Do'/Andrew Strader, so you know whom you are
complimenting.
> # And he *doesn't* say how to handle doubled glottal stops.
> # If he did, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
>Oh... I have always assumed that Klingon is pronounced as it's
>written, so it never occurred to me to think of glottal stop in
>particular. Don't they behave like other stops when doubled?
>qq, tt, pp... why not?
I have heard (from Okrand), that the only official treatment he's given in
anything he's produced for doubled consonants in Klingon is something in
the CDROM. I'm not sure where it is; I think you have to pronounce a word
wrong or something, and he tells us that you can pronounce "mm" (or maybe
"nn") as EITHER a held/doubled m OR as a single m, and either is correct.
Now that I've realized that we DO hear geminate consonants, as I recall the
"nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'" example (note that I said RECALL; I need to listen
to it again), it sounds to me like he has a long ', like a long Finnish kk
or pp, not like two separate, released ones. For whatever that's worth.
- From my own speech, it sounds to me like I pronounce geminates for
continuants and stops, as I said (is that what you mean, Sami, when you
talk about two p's, the first unreleased?), and, oddly, two separate
affricates, both released, for doubled affricates.
~mark
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