tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jun 01 11:52:53 1996
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Re: "under" (was KLBC:Name that Song)
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: Re: "under" (was KLBC:Name that Song)
- Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 13:56:21 -0500
I wrote:
>> nagh bIngDaq vIyIn.
>
>"I live it in/at a rock's below-area."
>It's close. You got the "under a rock" meaning okay, but the verb
>prefix ought to be {jI-} since there is no object in the sentence.
beHwI"av wrote:
>Isn't "a rock's below-area" an object.
"*A* rock's below-area" could be an object, but the noun suffix {-Daq}
marks it as a locative, which is neither subject nor object. See TKD
section 3.3.5's discussion of type 5 "syntactic marker" suffixes.
Steven Boozer writes:
>{nagh bIngDaq} is an adverbial phrase. Substitute another adverb to see
>how it works:
> nIteb jIyIn I live alone.
> naDev jIyIn I live here.
> pa' jIyIn I live over there.
Um...no. Adverbials describe *how* an action is performed. Locatives
describe *where*. They do have something in common, though: adverbials
and locatives are not objects. Neither are subordinate clauses, purpose
clauses, beneficiaries, reasons, or time words. [Names used with the verb
{pong} -- "predicate nominatives" -- might also fit in the category of
"something other than an object", but that's still up for debate.]
>Hmmm... wait a minute. {pa'} and {naDev} are NOUNS in Klingon, not
>"adverbials" (which according to TKD 5.4 "describe the manner of the
>activity"). The adverbials listed are adverbs of manner or time, not place
>(like "here", "there" and "everywhere" in English) or conjunctions (like
>{vaj}).
Right. Place indicators -- "locatives" -- *usually* are marked with the
suffix {-Daq}, but the nouns {naDev}, {pa'}, and {Dat} are exceptions
(see TKD 3.3.5, at the bottom of page 27).
>Maybe {nagh bIngDaq} IS the object after all, though there's no canon for
>{yIn} taking an object _per se_.
Again, {nagh bIngDaq} is a locative, not an object. The suffix {-Daq}
is a dead giveaway that it can't be an object.
-- ghunchu'wI' batlh Suvchugh vaj batlh SovchoH vaj