tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Aug 02 16:08:44 1996
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RE: An offer you shouldn't refuse!
- From: "Kenneth Traft" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: An offer you shouldn't refuse!
- Date: Fri, 2 Aug 96 23:09:26 UT
>On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 [email protected] wrote:
>tlhIngan Hol "Bible" 'ay'Daq mughlu'bogh, Dochvam vIlegh. "John 3:16"Daq
>"believe in him" tu'lu', 'ej {*ghaHDaq Har} ghItlhlu'pu'.
>>Mark Shoulson replied:
>>That would probably be Glen Proechel ... But I tend to doubt
>>it. In what we've seen of Klingon, -Daq is pretty explicitly used to be
>>spatial only (cf. qaStaHvIS wa' ram... for "in one night.") Believing IN
>>someone is a very English-specific idiom. It can mean "trust" (in which
>>case why not use "voq"?) or "believe that the person exists" (in which case
>>you should say that as well. This is obviously an idiomatic contraction of
>>a more complex concept). I don't think you can generalize from English to
>>Klingon that -Daq should be used in this manner; Glen apparently does.
>>Your mileage may vary.
Glen would like to reply that yes it was his translation "Good News for the
Warrior Race". I am answering for Glen because I am keeping in close contact
with him and will be handling the Interstellar Language School's affairs while
he is doing his Mission work in Russia.
Glen's reason for using <-Daq> comes from the reference in Conversation
Klingon when they referenced to Kahless's spirit within you (I don't have the
exact quote sorry), The phrase "within you" was translated <SoHDaq>. Glen
does not think they were refering to a physical space in this instance.
Glen also wants to point out that <qaStaHvIS> actually means "while it is
happening" or "During" rather than merely "IN".
Also "believe in" is used in all Indo European languages.
>On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 [email protected] wrote:
>tlhIngan Hol "Bible" 'ay'Daq mughlu'bogh, Dochvam vIlegh.
>>Mark Shoulson replied:
>>You may have to say "<Bible> 'ay' mughta'lu', 'ej 'ay'vamDaq..."
Glen believes that [email protected]'s translation is correct, but suggested
using <'e'> instead of <Dochvam>. Also that Mark made a typo on <mughlu'ta'>
(<ta'> is a type 7 suffix and <lu'> is a type 5).
*************** Ken's Comments *************************
"Good News for the Warrior Race" is now in its second printing and is very
popular among Christians. The appearance of the work is more cut and pasted
and it is photocopied, but the Klingon used in the book is good. There is a
lot of bad feeling toward Glen and I do not feel it is fair. Glen is a bit
abrasive and he is by profession a linguist. He is fluent in over 11
languages (plus Klingon) and Glen has been teaching languages for quite a
while. He gets headstrong and a bit haughty, but that is the way of most
intellectuals.
Glen believes in using the guidelines put forth in the TKD and he tends to
take the TKD references as a guideline based on his many years of linguistic
studies for further interpetation and usage. The general concensis by many is
to wait for Dr. Okrand to "spell everything out" before they will use it. One
thing I can praise "HoD Qankor" for is that he will run with the language
using the guidelines as he interprets them. Most of the conventions Glen has
proposed to date have been made canon in the many works by Dr. Okrand that
have come out recently. If you will remember Glen was very vocal (bordering
on obnoxious maybe) over the misuse of <-ghach> and Dr. Okrand's explanation
was in line with Glen's arguments.
Glen's works for the most part are pasted together and photocopied because he
doesn't have the resources or money to do otherwise (for the most part - he
sometimes gets too anxious and pushes to get the stuff out). One of my
philosophy professor's favorite phase was "throwing the baby out with the
bathwater". To dismiss Glen's work simply because they aren't as "pretty" as
those of the KLI or because Glen is Glen, "thows the baby out with the
bathwater."
Sorry for getting on my soap box, but I had to say it!