tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Feb 25 10:39:29 1995
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Re: I saw him in the ship
According to [email protected]:
>
> DujDaq ghaHpu' indicates "to me" that "he" was in the ship.
>
> DujDaq ghaH vIleghpu' indicates that "I" was in the ship to see him.
>
> DujDaq ghaHtaHvIS vIleghpu' 'ej Dujvetlh vIqIppu'bogh 'oHpu'
> is a try at translating I saw "him" in the ship that I hit.
Almost. The third example will confuse some people because you
seem to be using the pronoun simultaneously as a noun and as a
verb. Instead, you are clearly using it as a verb and the
{ghaH} implied in {vIlegh} is simply implied. It isn't there.
You could have as well said:
DujDaq ghaHtaHvIS ghaH vIleghpu'...
Meanwhile, you have repeatedly misused the perfective. The
suffix {-pu'} does NOT mean simple past tense. Once again, from
the top:
There is no tense in Klingon. What we indicate as tense in our
verbs, Klingons indicate by time stamps or other time related
context. The perfective is a modifier of what we call tense. It
is related only to the degree of completion of the action
within the time setting of the sentence.
vIlegh means "I see him," or "I saw him," or "I will see him."
vIleghpu' means "I have seen him," or "I had seen him," or "I
will have seen him." What do I mean my time context?
DaH vIlegh. I see him.
Wa'leS vIlegh. Tomorrow, I will see him.
Wa'Hu' vIlegh. Yesterday, I saw him.
DaH vIleghpu'. "I have seen him."
Wa'leS vIleghpu'. "Tomorrow, I will have seen him."
Wa'Hu' vIleghpu'. "Yesterday, I had seen him."
Get it? {vIleghpu'} NEVER means, "I saw him." Not now. Not
ever. Never. No way in Hell. Under NO circumstances.
> For 'oHpu', see TKD p172 I wasn't there = pa' hIHpu'be'
That's {jIHpu'be'}, and a lousey translation at that. Please
recognize that Okrand wrote these examples early in the
development of the language and several of them are very shady,
and in THIS case, the translation really should be "I haven't
been there." This is actually a stronger disclaimer than the
English translation that Okrand gives here.
> Finally, in addition:
>
> naDev and possible pa' (p172) are used for I'm lost = jIHtaHbogh naDev
> vISovbe' (I do not know the "place/hereabouts" where I am.)
This is indeed one of the examples that makes most of us wince.
Do recognize that he is using {naDev} as a noun and not as a
locative.
charghwI'
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