According to [email protected]:
>
> My name is Daniel W. Morse, aka peHruS.
...
> This article deals with the Federation Standard concept *with*.
>
> Soj vISoppmeH taj vIlo' I eat with a knife.
maj.
> Qujchuq loDHompu' The boys play with each other.
I really think this is quite well conveyed with a simple:
Quj loDHompu'.
If you insist on emphasizing that they are doing it together:
QujmeH tlhejchuq loDHompu'.
> moQHom Quj loDHom The boys play with the ball.
maj.
> tlhongqach lughoS Hoch loDHom be'Hom je The girls go with the boys to th=
> e
> store.
I don't much like that first word. Since we have no word for
"store", I would presume that Klingons might instead just say
that they went to the vendor, much as in older times people
didn't go to the "grocery store". They went to the "grocer".
ngevwI' lughoSmeH Hoch tlhejchuq loDHom be'Hom je.
> mInDu' ghajmo' ghot Dochmey leghlaH ghaH A man sees with his eyes.
A blind man has eyes, so he cannot see things BECAUSE he has
eyes.
leghlaHchugh ghot vaj mInDu' ghajnIS ghaH.
> pey bIQ je DuDpu' yaS The officer mixed the acid with the water.
maj. Except that this means the man "has mixed", "had mixed" or
"will have mixed". Perfective and past tense are not the same
thing. At the time setting of the sentence (which would be set
by context, though this sentence has no such context) the
action of mixing has been completed. If you want to translate
this english example, do not use {-pu'}. For example:
wa'Hu' pey bIQ je DuD yaS.
Yesterday, the officer mixed water and acid.
> paQDI'norgh ghojtaH ghojwI'pu' 'e' jeS puqbe'ma' Our daughter joined in =
> with
> the students studying the teachings.
I don't think {jeS} makes a very good transitive verb.
paQDI'norgh ghojtaHbogh ghojwI' tlhejchoH puqbe'ma'.
I think this conveys the sense that the students were already
in the process of studying at the time that our daughters began
to accompany them.
> qaSDI' ramjep vaj naHHom mojpu' DujDaj With the coming of midnight, her
> carriage turned into a little vegetable.
I think the {vaj} is extranious and even warps the grammar
somewhat, weakening the main verb. For that matter, the qaSDI'
is optional. {ramjep} alone provides a time stamp for the event
of the main verb.
ramjep naHHom mojpu' DujDaj.
> nItlhDajDaq Qeb ghajbe'taHvIS be'vetlh leghpu'mo' Human vaj nayta' be' 'e=
> '
> Sovbe' ghaH Because he saw the woman without her ring on her finger, the=
> man
> did not know the woman was married.
Eeeeeew. This one is very ambiguous. It could mean, "Because
the human saw the woman while he did not have a ring on his
finger, he did not know the woman was married." Again, the
{vaj} seems extraneous.
Qeb tuQbe'bejbogh be' nItlh leghchu'mo' Human, nayta'be'
be'vetlh 'e' Sovlaw' Human Doghqu'.
> The next part deals with the FS concept *against*.
Note that this concept is usually embedded in certain verbs.
> jaghpu'Daj Suv ghaH He fights against his enemies.
maj.
> qach'a' muppu' QujwI'pu' moQHom The players' ball struck against the
> building.
maj.
> naghvetlh retlhDaq 'oH nav'e' The paper is right up against the rock.
I would interpret this to mean that the paper is beside the
rock. I would not interpret this to mean that they were
touching.
nagh DopDaq 'oH nav'e'.
> ghaH par Hoch vay' Everyone is against him.
{Hoch} does not need {vay'}. Your sentence means "Everybody's
anybody dislikes him". Meanwhile, "is against him" can mean a
lot of different things. He could be serving a game of "cut
throat" on a racketball court where everyone (the other two
players, who like him a lot) is against him. He could be
standing in the middle of a crowded elevator (with everyone
mashed up against him). He could be speaking an opinion in a
room full of people who like him and respect him, but
completely disagree with this opinion. Or, he could be in a
battle where everyone is out to kill him, in which case {par}
seems like a mild verb. Meanwhile, in your original sentence,
you made an error I often make myself:
ghaH lupar Hoch.
Don't forget that prefix.
> SuS'a' SuvtaHvIS puv Duj The vessel flies against the wind.
SuSDaq puv Duj.
> qachDop HottaH DubDaj His back is against the wall.
maj.
> wa' HIgh vagh It was five against one.
I always thought of {HIgh} as intransitive. This is one of
those things Okrand REALLY needs to address. I wish he would
talk a little about transitivity and which verbs get it and
which ones don't.
wa' SuvwI'na' Suv vagh SuvwI'qoq.
> Heghta' jav ghotmeywIj 'ej [Heghta'] cha'maHwa' ghotmeylIj The score is
> twenty-one against six, my favor!
wejpuH. Meanwhile, if you are winning, I doubt that {-ta'} is
the proper suffix. If they died on purpose, than I would think
the team with the most dead would be winning. qar'a'? Here,
{-pu'} would be more appropriate.
> reH HIq tlhutlh loDpu' 'e' luQoch They are against alcoholism.
"They disagree that men always drink alchohol." I hear an
implied "should" here to make the meaning whole, and Klingon
does not have a "should", so:
HIq tlhutlhnIS loDpu' 'e' HarQo' chaH.
or, even stronger:
reH HIq tlhutlhbe'nIS loDpu' 'e' Har chaH.
There are several ways to say this with varying degrees of
intensity implied in the not-needing or needing-to-not drink.
> Hoch wanI' Qatlhqu' jeymo' Hovtay chu' tu' 'ejyo' loDpu' Against all odd=
> s
> the Starfleet personnel discovered the new star system.
"Because it defeats everybody's very difficult event, ..."?
Qatlhqu'pu' Qu'vam 'ach Hovtay chu' tu' 'ejyo' loDpu'.
> pIj verengan SutlhtaHghach ngermey morgh ghaH He commonly spoke out agai=
> nst
> the Ferengi negotiation methods.
pIj SutlhtaHbogh verengan Dabogh vay' morgh ghaH.
> chab baHpu' 'ej qachDop mup puq mach The little child threw the tart aga=
> inst
> the wall.
"He had fired the tart and the little child struck the wall." I
get the image of a kid throwing a tart up in the air, then down
on the floor. An adult gets pissed, picks up the kid, aims at
the wall and... the little child strikes the wall.
qachDop bachmeH puq mach, chab baH ghaH.
I had never thought of using {baH} this way. Great idea. Nice
image.
> muvqangtaHbe'vIS loDHompu'vetlh muvmoH yaS qej The mean officer recruite=
> d
> the boys against their will.
Placement of {-be'} is curious here.
muvqangbe'bogh loDHompu' muvmoH yaS qej.
> I'd like some of us to tackle the FS concept =93facing.=94 How about =93=
> in front
> of=94 and =93behind=94?
>
'et 'o' je.
charghwI'
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