tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Apr 23 10:46:44 1995
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Re: Prepositions
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995 [email protected] wrote:
> My name is Daniel W. Morse, aka peHruS.
>
> I have deliberately included (peHpu' ????) a couple of sentences which I
> anticipate will draw out some discussion. I am looking forward to hearin=
> g
> from you all.
What does {peHpu'} mean?
> This article deals with the Federation Standard concept =93with.=94
As you know, the key to translating words or concepts not directly found
in the Klingon lexicon, is to focus on the meaning of the entire
sentence, and not to focus on one individual word.
> Soj vISoppmeH taj vIlo' I eat with a knife.
majQa'.
> Qujchuq loDHompu' The boys play with each other.
{Qujchuq} would mean they play each other. {Quj} means "to play a game,"
and probably not "to contend against someone in a game." I think the
object of {Quj} would always be a game of some sort, and not another person.
If you wanted to specify that they were playing together, I would say:
QujDI' loDHompu' tlhejchuq chaH.
> moQHom Quj loDHom The boys play with the ball.
You could also say:
QujtaHvIS loDHompu' moQHom lo' chaH.
> tlhongqach lughoS Hoch loDHom be'Hom je The girls go with the boys to th=
> e
> store.
Here you are combining a verb and a noun to create a new word. To form a
compound noun, you need to use two nouns.
{Hoch loDHom be'Hom je} means "the boys and girls of all". You probably
want to say {loDHom be'Hom je Hoch} (all of the boys and girls).
For this translation of the word "with", HolQeD 2.4. explains the use of
{tlhej}. You could say:
Suy Daq lughoSDI' loDHompu' tlhej be'Hompu'.
> mInDu' ghajmo' ghot Dochmey leghlaH ghaH A man sees with his eyes.
You could also simply say: leghlu'meH mInDu' lulo'lu'.
> pey bIQ je DuDpu' yaS The officer mixed the acid with the water.
maj.
> paQDI'norgh ghojtaH ghojwI'pu' 'e' jeS puqbe'ma' Our daughter joined in =
> with
> the students studying the teachings.
Hmm. This means, "Our daughter participated that the students are
learning the teachings."
I would say: paQDI'norgh ghojbogh ghojwI'pu''e' tlhej puqbe'ma'.
> qaSDI' ramjep vaj naHHom mojpu' DujDaj With the coming of midnight, her
> carriage turned into a little vegetable.
Note that {qaSDI'} is optional when using a noun which
indicates a specific time. E.g. {DaHjaj}, {wa'Hu'}, etc.
Also, you don't want to use {-pu'} here. It would indicate that, at the
time specified, the action had been completed and was already over. I.e.
her carriage had already become a small vegetable when midnight came.
For more on this, refer to ~mark's excellent article in HolQeD 2.4.
> nItlhDajDaq Qeb ghajbe'taHvIS be'vetlh leghpu'mo' Human vaj nayta' be' 'e=
> '
> Sovbe' ghaH Because he saw the woman without her ring on her finger, the=
> man
> did not know the woman was married.
maj. Note that {Human} and {ghaH} can refer to a human of either gender. To
specify a "man", you could use {loD}. You could also substitute {ghaj}
with {tuQ}.
> The next part deals with the FS concept =93against.=94
>
> jaghpu'Daj Suv ghaH He fights against his enemies.
> qach'a' muppu' QujwI'pu' moQHom The players' ball struck against the
> building.
> naghvetlh retlhDaq 'oH nav'e' The paper is right up against the rock.
maj.
> ghaH par Hoch vay' Everyone is against him.
This works if you leave out {vay'}.
> SuS'a' SuvtaHvIS puv Duj The vessel flies against the wind.
> qachDop HottaH DubDaj His back is against the wall.
Building a compound word isn't necessary, this works fine if you leave
{qach} & {Dop} as two separate words.
> wa' HIgh vagh It was five against one.
{HIgh} is one of those strange words that we don't really know if it is
supposed to be transitive or not. If {HIgh} were not transitive, you
could say something like: wa' Suv HIghbogh vagh.
> Heghta' jav ghotmeywIj 'ej [Heghta'] cha'maHwa' ghotmeylIj The score is
> twenty-one against six, my favor!
The highly figurative nature of this sentence makes it difficult to
understand if the reader didn't know what you were referring to. I would
say: cha'maH wa'logh jIQap 'ach javlogh bIQap neH.
> reH HIq tlhutlh loDpu' 'e' luQoch They are against alcoholism.
I wouldn't use {Qoch}, it sounds like they are arguing whether he is
drinking or not. Perhaps you could substitute {lulajHa'} for {luQoch}.
Also, using {loDpu'} seems to indicate a specific group of men, if they
are opposed to anyone's drinking, then I would use the indefinite subject:
reH HIq tlhutlhlu' 'e' lulajHa'.
> Hoch wanI' Qatlhqu' jeymo' Hovtay chu' tu' 'ejyo' loDpu' Against all odd=
> s
> the Starfleet personnel discovered the new star system.
Watch your spelling, it's {Hovtay'}. {Hovtay} means "star-ceremony".
Also, since Starfleet consists of both men and women, I would use
something like {beqpu'} instead of {loDpu'}. I translate {Hoch
wanI' Qatlhqu' jeymo'...} as "Because they defeated everyone's very
difficult event..." Perhaps you could say:
ghaytan Hovtay' chu' tu'laHbe' vay' 'ach Qap 'ejyo' beqpu'
> pIj verengan SutlhtaHghach ngermey morgh ghaH He commonly spoke out agai=
> nst
> the Ferengi negotiation methods.
majQa'.
> chab baHpu' 'ej qachDop mup puq mach The little child threw the tart aga=
> inst
> the wall.
I would put {puq mach} in the first sentence so we know who the subject
is. I would tie the two actions together somehow. It sounds like maybe
she threw the tart then hit the wall with her fist. There is nothing to
indicate she hit the wall with the tart.
qach DopDaq chab puvmoH puq mach 'aj pe'vIl mup 'oH.
> muvqangtaHbe'vIS loDHompu'vetlh muvmoH yaS qej The mean officer recruite=
> d
> the boys against their will.
Not bad, exept I would change the first word to {muvqangbe'taHvIS}.
> I'd like some of us to tackle the FS concept =93facing.=94 How about =93=
> in front
> of=94 and =93behind=94?
You can use {'etDaq} and {'o'Daq}.
yoDtargh