tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 02 23:22:25 2014

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[Tlhingan-hol] From Marc Okrand: tu'lu' is a set form

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

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<TITLE>From Marc Okrand: tu'lu' is a set form</TITLE>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">We&#8217;ve suspected this for a while, given the number of times tu&#8217;lu&#8217; has been used where lutu&#8217;lu&#8217; was expected. (Ugh, can&#8217;t turn off smart quotes because I need to keep the following formatting), but Marc has confirmed that tu&#8217;lu&#8217; is a set form that is grammatical for singular or plural. I mentioned my suspicion in a throwaway comment about something else he asked me to send for Maltz&#8217; analysis, and he was able to verify it right away without even consulting Maltz. His words:<BR>
You're right about<B> tu'lu'</B>. &nbsp;It's a fixed or set form and it's used whether the object is singular or plural. &nbsp;If the object is plural, the<B> lu</B>- could be used or not -- but the form lacking the<B> lu</B>- is far more common and the form with the<B> lu</B>- sounds a little pedantic. &nbsp;This kind of parallels what's going on in English these days (at least in the US -- I don't know about Canada or the UK) where &quot;there's&quot; is often used regardless of whether what follows is singular or plural:</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There's some things you need to know.</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There's no tomatoes in the store.</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There's more Klingons than Romulans around here.</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There's a lot of cars on the road today.</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">This works for the contraction only. &nbsp;&quot;There is some things...&quot;, &quot;There is no tomatoes...&quot;, &quot;There is more Klingons...&quot;, &quot;There is a lot of cars...&quot; are all ungrammatical. &nbsp;(Well, the last one is okay if by &quot;lot&quot; you're referring to a place where they sell cars.)</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">It's fine to say:</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are some things..., There're some things...</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are no tomatoes..., There're no tomatoes...</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are more Klingons..., There're more Klingons...</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are a lot of cars..., There're a lot of cars...</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">Klingon works the same way. &nbsp;<B>tu'lu'</B> is like &quot;there's&quot; (object can be singular or plural) &nbsp;and<B> lutu'lu'</B> is like &quot;there are/there're&quot; (object must be plural).</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">My guess here is that a common Clipped Klingon construction crept into everyday Klingon and became the usual way of doing things.<BR>
(excerpt from e-mail to me, dated 2014-09-02 21:47)</SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">So we can keep being pedantic about lutu&#8217;lu&#8217; if we want, but that puts us on the level of people (like me) who say</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8220;mmm&#8221; as we pass the &#8220;Who will you share a Coke with?&#8221; sign, and not because I like Coca-Cola.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">- Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

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