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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] do {vIttlhegh} become {ngo'} or {qan}?

Steven Boozer (sboozer@uchicago.edu)



QeS:
> Precisely. Using Chinese to guide understanding of Klingon is not
> fruitful. You're best off going to canon examples.

{ngo'}  be old (not new) (v)

KGT 130:  The word {ngo'} in the phrase above means old as opposed to new. Thus, it would be applied to objects or ideas, but not to animals or people. To say that a person is extremely old, the phrase would be {qan; QI'tu' rur} ("He/she is as old as Qui'Tu").

  ngo'
  It is old. KLS

  janmey ngo' lulo'lu'DI' pIj jabbI'ID nISpu' woj 
  Older models were susceptible to radiation. S19

  ngo'; QI'tu' rur 
  [it is as] old as Qui'Tu KGT

  DIvI' tamey ngo' 
  Federation Archives STC


{qan}  be old (not young) (v)

HQ 10.2:9:  In addition to {qan} "use the little finger, use the pinkie", there is another verb {qan} meaning "be old (not young)". No doubt because of this resemblance, when one points at someone using the little finger, or when one remarks on this pointing, the pointer is making a comment on the age of the person being pointed to.

  bIqan 
  You are old. KLS

  bIqanmo' 
  because you are old. TKD

  SuvwI'pu' qan tu'lu'be' 
  There are no old warriors. TKW

  qanchoHpa' qoH, Hegh qoH 
  Fools die young. TKW

  qan; QI'tu' rur 
  He/she is as old as Qui'Tu. KGT 

  'ugh SuvwI' qan 
  The old warrior is heavy. KGT

  'uH SuvwI' qan 
  The old warrior has a hangover. KGT

  qan qI'empeq 
  K'mpec is old. (HQ 10.2:9)

  qeylIS SuvwI' qan je (PB)


Related words:

qup 		elder (n)

nen 		be mature/grown-up, adult (v)
notlh 	be obsolete (v)
tIQ 		be ancient (v)

chu'		be new (v)
Qup		be young (v)
ghoQ  	be fresh, be just killed (meat) (v)


De'vID:
>> Indeed, we know young Klingons don't describe new language as
>> {chu'} or {Qup}, but as {ghoQ}.

QeS:
> In that instance there's also a difference of register that you
> need to consider as well. Is it really true that young Klingons
> don't *ever* describe new language as {chu'} or {Qup}? If they
> were speaking to someone from an older generation, say, would
> they necessarily still use the term {mu'mey ghoQ} for such a
> thing? Would they dare refer to the older person's slang as
> {Doy'} in front of their faces? I don't think so.

KGT 35f.:  The primary difference between the speech of older and younger Klingons, however, lies in the choice of vocabulary. Younger Klingons describe some of the vocabulary used by their elders as {mu'mey Doy'} ("tired words"), preferring to use what they call {mu'mey ghoQ} ("fresh words") or even {Hol ghoQ} ("fresh language")... It should be pointed out that the vocabulary associated with rituals, martial arts, literature, opera, and the like, though some of it may be genuinely archaic, is not considered {mu'mey Doy'} ("tired words"). Traditions are extremely important in Klingon culture, and the younger generation honors them fully. The term {mu'mey Doy'} is used only in reference to everyday speech.

KGT 143:  As with other aspects of the speech of the younger Klingons, many older Klingons, particularly those most resistant to any change in Klingon society, avoid using slang and deride its use. There are some older Klingons, on the other hand, who use slang quite comfortably, especially when communicating with younger Klingons. The disagreement about the status of slang is reflected in the terms used for "standard" or "proper" Klingon words. As noted earlier, those who tend to favor the use of slang often call standard words {mu'mey Doy'} ("tired words"). Those who dislike the use of slang, on the other hand, refer to standard words as {mu'mey qar} ("accurate words").


--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons



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