tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 18 20:35:12 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] tlhoS

Rohan Fenwick ( [KLI Member]

ghItlhpu' Alex, jatlh:
> I was thinking along the lines of wondering whether it could be used
> like {neH} to modify a noun - *{loD tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'} Your son
> is almost a man*;

vIjangpu', jIjatlh:
> Not that I know of, and in any case it strikes me as really bizarre. If you
> stick any other verb at all in there, you'll see its full weirdness. *{loD
> tlhoS qIpta' puq} *"the child hit the almost-man"? Awful.

jang je Qov, jatlh:
> I read it loD tlhoS qIpta' puq as loD'e' tlhoS qIpta' puq, i.e. the child
> almost hit the man, which suggests that what Alex was thinking was loD'e'
> tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'.

Respectfully, I doubt it. Alex explicitly asked about whether {tlhoS} acts like {neH}, so *{loD tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'} (sic) had to be what was being considered. In {loD'e' tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'}, {tlhoS} is still modifying the verb, not the noun; {loD'e'} is simply shifted out of object position and into header position (therefore topic, rather than focus).

Funny, how our minds read things differently. When I read {loD tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'}, my first instinct is still to see it as an error of word order rather than suffix omission, though both are in principle equally possible.

> I don't see that as significantly different than tlhoS loD ghaH puqloDlI''e'.

I agree that {loD'e' tlhoS ghaH puqloDlI''e'} is fine - a subtle shift in emphasis, nothing more.

> Either, however, suggests to me that the speaker suggests the listener's son
> is an abomination not rightfully deserving of the appellation "man." It's
> something you'd say to Frankenstein to complement him on his monster, if he
> were referring to it as his son. For the idea Alex wants, I recommend loD
> mojlI' puqloDlI'. or nenbejlI' puqloDlI'.

{tugh loD moj puqloDlI''e'} is another option.

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