tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 06 10:15:38 2012
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 125,000
<div dir="ltr">We cannot actually infer from the fact that Klingon introduces a new number-forming element for every additional zero, that it goes on like this. Thai does a similar thing but stops at "million" (ล้าน [lá:n]). So there is no new word for 10 million, as one might infer from the pattern, but one calls it simply สิบล้าน [sìp lá:n] = "ten million". As far as I'm aware it's even common to speak of ล้านล้าน [lá:n lá:n] = "one million million".<br>
Anyways, no other choice in Klingon anyway, as we couldn't guess the names for any higher numbers.<br><br>Greetings,<br>- André<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/6/6 Robyn Stewart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">[email protected]</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The Chinese system is a useful and productive one, but the pattern that we see in Klingon from ten to a million is that there is a new word for every factor of ten, just as American English has a new word for every factor of a thousand.<br>
<br>
I like your attention-span-saving suggestion.<br>
<br>
- Robyn<br>
<br>
At 10:02 '?????' 6/6/2012, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I've always just assumed that Klingon numbers work in such a way that it'd be wa'bIp cha'netlh vaghSaD, but I see now that that's not strictly stated in TKD. I would assumed, however, that it's sort of like the system commonly used in modern-day China: You have names for 0-9, and then words for 10, 100, 1 000 and - unlike in English - 10 000 ("myriad"). Then, instead of saying "one hundred thousands", you say "ten myriads". Likewise, 1 000 000 is "100 myriads", and 10 000 000 becomes "1 000 myriads". Then, you have the next step: A y¨¬, which is ten thousand squared, or 100 million. To say "one billion", you say "10 y¨¬", and ten billion is "100 y¨¬", and so forth up to the zh¨¤o, which is 10 000 to the third power, or a myriad myriad myriads. Next is j¨©ng (10^16), g¨¡i (10^20), z¨« (10^24) and so forth. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals#Large_numbers"; target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<u></u>Chinese_numerals#Large_numbers</a> In other words, while most of us are used to a convention which needs a new name for every factor 1 000 (or, by the long count, 1 000 000), most Chinese people [as I understand it] would be used to one which takes a new step for every factor 10 000. Therefore, I'd guess that the next [commonly used but unknown to us] Klingon number-forming element would be one for a 10^2; the number which is 1 greater than 999,999,999,999 (which, similar to you, I think would probably be called <HutbIp Hutnetlh HutSaD Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut'uy' HutbIp Hutnetlh HutSaD Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut>)*. Perhaps when explaining such big numbers to laymen, Klingon mathematicians refer to this element as <wa''uy''uy'>. ------------------------------<u></u>----------- WARNING: Going off on a tangent. ------------------------------<u></u>----------- *Another alternative, which requires more syllables but may not be as demanding on your attention span, is <HutbIp'uy' Hutnetlh'uy' HutSaD'uy'...>. That way, you don't have to wait twelve syllables before you find out what order of magnitude you're dealing with; it'll always be right there in the third. One could of course imagine all sort of systems. For example, one that squares upwards after 'uy': If the next number-forming elements is called X, and 1X = 1'uy''uy' = 10^12, then the next one, Y, would be 1'uy'X (10^18), but 1XX (10^24), and Z would be 10^48. So, if you wanted to say 24*10^42 (24 tredecillion), you'd have to say cha'maH'uy'XY loS'uy'XY. Dunno if that'd be practical, but you never know with alien species :P ______________________________<u></u>__________ From: Qov [<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">[email protected]</a>] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 17:17 To: De'vID jonpIn; tlhIngan-Hol Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 125,000 I see that TKD says "some of the number forming elements for higher numbers are ..." and stops at 'uy'. Clearly there are more we don't know. That suggests to me that there is one for each place up as high as Klingons need to count before whatever their scientifix notation is cuts in. But just as people who want to be clear when talking to an international audience avoid words like billion and say "a thousand million" or "a mllion million," I imagine 423,198,765,432 could be understood as loSbIp cha'netlh wejSaD wa'vatlh HutmaH chorgh'uy' Soch bIp javnetlh vaghSaD loSmaH wejmaH cha'. - Qov At 01:56 '?????' 6/6/2012, De'vID jonpIn wrote: >Qov: > >>> qepHomwIjDaq jatlh ghojwI', "chay' <125,000> jIjatlh?" > >*{wa' chorghvI' 'uy'} > >No, not really, but I wish *{-vI'} generalised in this way (from {vatlhvI'}). > >qurgh: > >> wa'bIp cha'netlh vaghSaD > >Qov: > > That makes sense. Is that canonical, qurgh? > >Why else would we have {bIp} and {netlh}? > >-- >De'vID >_________________________ ______________________ >Tlhingan-hol mailing list ><a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.<u></u>digitalkingdom.org</a> >http ://<a href="http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; target="_blank">stodi.digitalkingdom.org/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a> ______________________________<u></u>_________________ Tlhingan-hol mailing list <a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.<u></u>digitalkingdom.org</a> <a href="http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; target="_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.<u></u>org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-<u></u>hol</a><br>
</blockquote><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.<u></u>digitalkingdom.org</a><br>
<a href="http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; target="_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.<u></u>org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-<u></u>hol</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol