tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Aug 20 10:56:58 2011

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Re: mu'mey chu': matlh vItlho'qu'

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

I totally agree with charghwI''s assessment of the privilege of 
working with Marc Okrand, and I was going to write something similar 
to what ghunchu`wI`wrote in response, so since ghunchu'wI' and 
charghwI' wrote it already I`ll add only that, had I realized at the 
time the frustration that would be involved trying to convey the new 
words to you, it would have been just as frustrating finding them as 
it is now for you trying to receive them.  I didn`t think to write 
down the context and the translation of the context in which the 
words I saw appeared. I only saw the words that appeared in the pages 
of the libretto that my side of the table was working on, and I was 
so focused on that task that the new words were secondary to it. It 
sounds stupid now, but we didn't think to press him because task 
number one was finishing the 30 page document so we could go for 
lunch. I was hungry!

What you are interpreting as coyness in revealing what we know is on 
my part caution to reveal only what we were given, without colouring 
it with my interpretation. At this point it would be really bad to 
list the words here with our best-guess English definitions next to 
them. Not for your sake, but for the language's sake, remembering the 
story of 'I'. Please look instead at the context we are providing and 
help us define the words.

qangu'qa'laHmo' charghwI' jIbelqu'.  trI'Qal HoD, bISaH je 'e' vItulqu'.

- Qov

At 08:34 20/08/2011, you wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:42 AM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <
>[email protected]> wrote:
> > Okrand isn't just a person. He's the root authority of the language. As
> > someone communicating with him, you are not just a person. You are
> > representing the general interests of the larger Klingon speaking 
> community.
> > If he gives you a vague idea of what a word means or how a grammar detail
> > works and you just accept it as he initially presents it without exploring
> > the edges of what he's saying and seeking feedback on your interpretation,
> > then the rest of the community never gets the details. We are 
> then all stuck
> > with the vague sense of things that you were satisfied to accept, and we'll
> > argue about it for the next year or longer. And we don't have any feedback
> > loop that includes Okrand to make sure we aren't misinterpreting what he
> > intended to convey.
>
>
>Understand two things about this particular collection of words. First, they
>appeared in the lyrics of an opera. They had a definite context, with a
>parallel English version that naturally wasn't always a word-for-word
>translation. Marc Okrand told us explicitly to rely on that context, and to
>understand the meanings based on their usage. He clearly did not want to
>provide simple or precise definitions, and the only details readily
>available to us were on the pages we were reading.
>
>Second, we were speaking only Klingon at the time. I didn't even notice that
>until we came across the obviously un-simple <ngIq>. I found myself having
>to stop relying on speech only and start using more pantomime and pointing
>to ensure I was getting my intent across while we tried to pin down its
>meaning.
>
>And then, when you present what you've learned, if you allow a sense of,
> > "... and I know more than I'm letting on just now," then you do a great
> > disservice to the rest of the community. What good does it do the language
> > for a few people to know things the rest of us don't have access to?
>
>
>"I know a secret and you don't" applies to the qep'a' attendees as well. Qov
>was just letting you in on the anticipation when she reported the existence
>of words that are said to be in the Klingon vocabulary but for which we
>haven't been told the meaning. There's apparently some sort of large
>multilingual translation project/product that hasn't been released yet. One
>of the people who was part of it (and not at the qep'a') sent Lawrence an
>email birthday message containing and explaining a single novel word. The
>message said two other things: you can confirm this word with Marc Okrand,
>and don't tell anyone else about it. Marc declined to confirm the word (at
>least in public), and didn't disagree when we guessed that there was a
>nondisclosure agreement involved. I don't think anyone managed to hear the
>word when Lawrence tried to pronounce it before he got to the part about
>keeping it quiet.
>
>
> > Then, it's not a language. It's a game, and you just got extra points.
> > Congratulations.
> >
>
>For we who were present, the process of acquiring the new words was indeed a
>game, and I believe everyone playing it won.
>
>-- ghunchu'wI'

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