tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Oct 26 15:42:07 2009

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Re: Ditransitive reflexives

Tracy Canfield (toastrix@gmail.com)



My original post discusses *why* the prefix trick seems to be a problem in
these cases.  With examples.  So I really am more than a little frustrated
to have two people immediately tell me to use it, without addressing the
original question.
2009/10/26 André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com>

> I think what Lieven was implying was that it *might* be that if you can use
> the "prefix trick" (isn't this simply what's usually called dative-shift?)
> for ditransitive sentences too. So, a ditransitive verb like give with the
> prefix trick looks as if it had two direct objects: one expressed by the
> prefix and an overt one in form of a noun. A double accusative structure,
> if
> you want it that way.
> It's not unlogical to reason that using the reciprocal suffix {-chuq}
> behind
> the ditransitive verb expresses likewise the meaning of "giving X to each
> other".
> We don't have any canon phrases expressing this concept, but a sentence
> like
> that *could* be:
> {yuch nobchuqpu'}
>
> But this is only an educated guess, as there's no example in the corpus, we
> can only guess... but maybe there are other possibilities, like {yuch
> lutampu'} (they exchanged chocolate). ;)
>
> Greetings,
> - André
>
> 2009/10/26 Tracy Canfield <toastrix@gmail.com>
>
> > Yeah, but ... that's not what I'm asking.
> > My question is about what happens when either the direct object or the
> > indirect object is the same as the subject.
> >
> > 2009/10/26 Lieven Litaer <levinius@gmx.de>
> >
> > > I don't know if that's the answer, but maybe a way towards it:
> > >
> > > You can say
> > >  {jIHvaD paq yInob}
> > >  "give the book to me"
> > >
> > > and
> > >  {paq HInob}
> > >  "give me the book"
> > >
> > > I think that's called the "prefix trick".
> > >
> > > Quvar.
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>





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