tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 07 17:29:09 2009

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Re: The meaning of -moH

Doq (doq@embarqmail.com)



nuv vIja'. Hol vIjatlh. mu'thegh vIjatlh.

nuv vItlhob. *Question* vIghel.

Okay, I looked it up. Neither of us is right to the point of  
confidence that we can call the other wrong. See HolQeD Volume 7,  
Number 4, page 4:

Okrand: "... So maybe the way it works is that ghel can ask a question  
and only ask a question and the other one [tlhob] can mean that  and  
is also used to request or plead or something like that."

Starting with the vague memory of having read that a long time ago, I  
combined that with the definitions:

tlhob: [TKD: ask], [TKD appendix: request, ask, plead]

ghel: [KGT: ask (a question)]

The definition suggests that the direct object of {ghel} should be a  
question and not a person.

We have examples of the use of {tlhob} with persons as the direct  
object, and also with sentences as its direct object. I know of no  
canon that uses a person as the direct object of {ghel}, though there  
may very well be some.

So, you are right that {tlhob} means to plead or request, but you are  
not exclusively right, since there are examples of it being used for  
the "question" related meaning of "ask" as well, despite how neat and  
well organized it would be if it didn't sometimes have that meaning.

Doq

On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:06 PM, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/6/2009 22:26:11 Eastern Daylight Time,
> doq@embarqmail.com writes:
>
>> mu'tlheghlIjvaD, mu' {tlhob} nIv law', mu' {ghel} nIv puS. nuv
>> tlhoblu'. qech ghellu'.
>>
>> Doq
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2009, at 9:39 PM, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> Both occurrences of "ihn" in this sentence are accusative, "the
>>> usual case
>>> for primary objects", not dative, and you yourself so indicated with
>>> ".ACC".
>>> The first is the direct object of "lasse" and the second is the  
>>> direct
>>> object of "fragen".
>>>
>>> (ghaH) ghel (ghaH) 'e' vIchaw'.
>>>
>>> lay'tel SIvten
>>
>
> bIlughbe'law'.  vay' ngoD vISov vIneHchugh, vay' nuv vIghel. mulob  
> vay'
> vIneHchugh, vItlhob (pagh vIpoQ pagh vIra').
> vItlhobchugh "Doytlh" Hol vIlo'taHvIS, vaj <bitten> vIjatlh.  
> vIghelchugh
> vaj Holvam mu' <fragen> vIjatlh.
>
> lay'tel SIvten
>
>
>







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