tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 26 14:09:54 2009

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Re: The topic marker -'e'

Steven Lytle (lytlesw@gmail.com)



I think part of the problem in following this conversation is that in X-vaD
Y, the X-vaD is never (supposed to be) a noun-noun construction, yet it's
being called this over and over.
lay'tel SIvten

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com>wrote:

> I think my phone is screwing up the who said what when bit. Sorry if my
> answers below are weird...
> > If this is true (which I think it is), then -vaD gets used for > anything
> where an action or object is directed toward something, and
>
> > is thus logically used for indirect objects, but this doesn't limit
>
> > how it is used...  For example:
>
> >
>
> > tlhIHvaD tIrqi' jaj Quch!!
>
>
>
> 'oy' jay'! When transliterating, please at least mark the word somehow.
>
> It took me a moment to realize this meant "turkey," and any beginners
>
> reading your post may have spent several minutes scratching their heads,
>
> wondering what *{qi'} meant. :)
>
>
>
> ME: Well, how does one mark this? Or is simply using the english word okay
> in these cases?
>
> --
> But yes, I agree that {-vaD} can be used in this sense, but not with
>
> this syntax, unless it's clipped in the way DloraH suggested. You
>
> haven't specified what {tlhIH} is the beneficiary of. It can't be
>
> {turkey jaj Quch}, because that's a noun phrase, and modifying the
>
> following noun phrase would be a noun-noun construction with a Type 5
>
> suffix on the genitive. (The same objection I've had all along.)
>
>
>
> ME: But I have specified it. It is the recipient of a a happy turkey day.
>
> I still take issue with saying that a noun with -vaD modifies following
> nouns. Based on what we know, I don't think this interpretation is ever
> correct.
>
> Well-wishing and (espeically) toasts in Klingon actually follow special
>
> grammatical rules, first mentioned in Power Klingon and later explained
>
> in detail in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler. No matter what the
>
> sentence, the verb will have {-jaj} and it will always come last, even
>
> if this violates OVS order. So, as a toast:
>
>
>
>    tlhIHvaD turkey jaj Quchjaj!
>
>    May you have a happy turkey day!
>
>    Happy turkey day!
>
>
>
> ME: Okay, so I got the final jaj wrong, but this is otherwise just what I
> said...
>
> --
>
> In standard Klingon, if it weren't in the context of a toast or the
>
> like, the sentence would be
>
>
>
>    tlhIHvaD Quchjaj turkey jaj!
>
>
> ME: I'm confused by this, but that might just be because of relatives and
> not anything about the sentence. I think my confusion is because something
> like this is always going to be a toast/well-wishing type thing, so this
> seems odd...
>
>
>






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