tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 24 13:49:15 2009

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Re: Klingon orthography

Brent Kesler ( [KLI Member]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM, David Trimboli<> wrote:
> I encountered some transformation problems when I was working the bugs
> out of my MUSH regional speech commands, which let you type ta' Hol and
> you speak a regional accent.


> I don't remember what bugs I saw in setting this up, but this is exactly
> the sort of situation where case matters a great deal.

True, but if you're already working at the level of regular
expressions, working around Q/q is trivial. The Unicode standard in
not going to get in your way.

To Mr. Everson, you obviously understand Unicode in great detail, but
as someone who's hacked out a lot of Perl, the Q/q problem seems

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Michael Everson<> wrote:
> Further, I also indicate that sorting operations are made more complex
> if you attempt to treat a casing pair as two separate entities.

How much more complex? Off the top of my head, I don't think
controlling for Q/q is going bump a logarithmic sort algorithm into
polynomial time, or even linear time. If I'm the programmer, it might
annoy me, but if I run the server farm, I care more about processor

> Moreover, I outlined the political benefits of taking this data issue
> seriously in terms of an eventual re-try at encoding pIqaD.

Really? pIqaD was rejected because there was "no substantial
information exchange in the script". I don't see how adopting another
orthography is going to fix that.

> Your suggestion that I have given one explanation only is
> disingenuous. I don't think your arguments are going very well, so
> you've tried to disparage my attempt at dialogue because I may not
> know as much Klingon as you do,

Not really. When it comes to Unicode and related technologies, you're
the alpha geek in this forum and all lesser geeks bow before you (like
me: I'm clearly a dilletante on the subject). All the problems you
raise would be major issues if our goal were encoding a character set.
But since our goal is mastery of Klingon words and grammar and
actually using the language, the problems you mention are simply
problems we don't have. We can study, read, and write just fine the
way it is. Yeah, there are some quirks we need to work around, but
we've already adapted.

It ain't broke. Stop fixing it.


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