tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 23 08:41:12 2009

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Re: Klingon orthography (was: Okrand at qep'a')

Michael Everson (everson@evertype.com)



On 23 Jun 2009, at 15:38, Matthew Hamby wrote:

> So, for my vote, I think initially that I like the third option that  
> Michael listed in his previous message:  eng, x, t-stroke.  T-stroke  
> is the only really unusual character, at least for me, so it seems  
> the easiest to change to.

In the previous message I said:

a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q ê r s t Å u v w y â (eng, q- 
stroke, l-stroke)

a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q qÌ r s t Å u v w y â (n-caron, q- 
caron, l-stroke)

a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q x r s t Å u v w y â (eng, x, t- 
stroke)

What I get from what Matthew says is that he thinks it's fine simply  
to lower-case D/H/I/S without any need to mark them in any way. I sort  
of wonder if that's practical for S but then I wonder if there aren't  
many people who pronounce it as /s/ instead of /Ê/ anyway.

Another principle has to do with ng and Q and tlh, but mostly for Q.  
Changing it to X is a fairly big change; keeping it as a modified kind  
of Q might be less difficult for the reader, though that means  
possible difficulty for font support.

> And then there were: qÏ (q chi), x, ê (q with stroke through  
> tail), Ï (chi), qÌ (q with caron), q, Æ Æ (gha), È (qp digraph),  
> É É (q with hook tail), and Ê (q with hook).

The last is kind of neat because it is similar to eng. And there's a  
hooked t too, so:

a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q Ê r s t Æ u v w y â (eng, q-hook,  
t-hook)

Both Å/Å and Å/Å should have a fair bit of font support these days,  
as the first is Polish and the second, with Å/Å is used in Sami, a  
user community in Norway which has been fairly effective at getting  
support from the big companies.

Here is a sample text in which in the second part there are several  
q's and Q's...

Sar jeSwI'ma': jeS Hov leng parHa'wI'pu', Sov luneHmo' 'ej yu'  
luneHmo'; jeS je Dabogh QujwI'pu', tlhIngan 'oSbogh ghotqoq'e' teHmoH  
luneHmo'; jeS je HolQeD, De'wI'QeD, yabQeD je HaDbogh HaDwI'pu'  
po'wI'pu' je, DuSaQDaq QIjmeH tlhIngan Hol lo'mo', qoj Qu' Quj je DuD  
luneHmo' neH.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Æujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÆed, deâwiâÆed,  
yabÆed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÆdaq Æijmeh  
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Æuâ Æuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog xujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holxed, deâwiâxed, yabxed  
je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaxdaq xijmeh ÅiÅan hol  
loâmoâ, qoj xuâ xuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Êujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÊed, deâwiâÊed,  
yabÊed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÊdaq Êijmeh  
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Êuâ Êuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Èujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÈed, deâwiâÈed,  
yabÈed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÈdaq Èijmeh  
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Èuâ Èuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog qÌujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holqÌed, deâwiâqÌed,  
yabqÌed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaqÌdaq  
qÌijmeh ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj qÌuâ qÌuj je dud lunehmoâ  
neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Éujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÉed, deâwiâÉed,  
yabÉed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÉdaq Éijmeh  
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Éuâ Éuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.

Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ  
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog êujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog  
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holêed, deâwiâêed,  
yabêed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaêdaq  
êijmeh ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj êuâ êuj je dud lunehmoâ  
neh.

Now here is the same set all uppercased:

SAR JESWI'MA': JES HOV LENG PARHA'WI'PU', SOV LUNEHMO' 'EJ YU'  
LUNEHMO'; JES JE DABOGH QUJWI'PU', TLHINGAN 'OSBOGH GHOTQOQ'E' TEHMOH  
LUNEHMO'; JES JE HOLQED, DE'WI'QED, YABQED JE HADBOGH HADWI'PU'  
PO'WI'PU' JE, DUSAQDAQ QIJMEH TLHINGAN HOL LO'MO', QOJ QU' QUJ JE DUD  
LUNEHMO' NEH.

SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÆUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÆED, DEâWIâÆED,  
YABÆED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÆDAQ ÆIJMEH  
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÆUâ ÆUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.

SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG XUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLXED, DEâWIâXED, YABXED  
JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAXDAQ XIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL  
LOâMOâ, QOJ XUâ XUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.

**SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÊUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÊED, DEâWIâÊED,  
YABÊED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÊDAQ ÊIJMEH  
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÊUâ ÊUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.

**SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÈUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÈED, DEâWIâÈED,  
YABÈED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÈDAQ ÈIJMEH  
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÈUâ ÈUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.

SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG QÌUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLQÌED, DEâWIâQÌED,  
YABQÌED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAQÌDAQ  
QÌIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ QÌUâ QÌUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ  
NEH.

SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÉUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÉED, DEâWIâÉED,  
YABÉED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÉDAQ ÉIJMEH  
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÉUâ ÉUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.

SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ  
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG êUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG  
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLêED, DEâWIâêED,  
YABêED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAêDAQ  
êIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ êUâ êUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ  
NEH.

**Note too that if Ê or È were chosen, a new capital letter character  
would have to be added to Unicode as it does not yet exist.

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/







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