tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 23 08:41:12 2009
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Re: Klingon orthography (was: Okrand at qep'a')
On 23 Jun 2009, at 15:38, Matthew Hamby wrote:
> So, for my vote, I think initially that I like the third option that
> Michael listed in his previous message: eng, x, t-stroke. T-stroke
> is the only really unusual character, at least for me, so it seems
> the easiest to change to.
In the previous message I said:
a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q ê r s t Å u v w y â (eng, q-
stroke, l-stroke)
a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q qÌ r s t Å u v w y â (n-caron, q-
caron, l-stroke)
a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q x r s t Å u v w y â (eng, x, t-
stroke)
What I get from what Matthew says is that he thinks it's fine simply
to lower-case D/H/I/S without any need to mark them in any way. I sort
of wonder if that's practical for S but then I wonder if there aren't
many people who pronounce it as /s/ instead of /Ê/ anyway.
Another principle has to do with ng and Q and tlh, but mostly for Q.
Changing it to X is a fairly big change; keeping it as a modified kind
of Q might be less difficult for the reader, though that means
possible difficulty for font support.
> And then there were: qÏ (q chi), x, ê (q with stroke through
> tail), Ï (chi), qÌ (q with caron), q, Æ Æ (gha), È (qp digraph),
> É É (q with hook tail), and Ê (q with hook).
The last is kind of neat because it is similar to eng. And there's a
hooked t too, so:
a b c d e g h i j l m n Å o p q Ê r s t Æ u v w y â (eng, q-hook,
t-hook)
Both Å/Å and Å/Å should have a fair bit of font support these days,
as the first is Polish and the second, with Å/Å is used in Sami, a
user community in Norway which has been fairly effective at getting
support from the big companies.
Here is a sample text in which in the second part there are several
q's and Q's...
Sar jeSwI'ma': jeS Hov leng parHa'wI'pu', Sov luneHmo' 'ej yu'
luneHmo'; jeS je Dabogh QujwI'pu', tlhIngan 'oSbogh ghotqoq'e' teHmoH
luneHmo'; jeS je HolQeD, De'wI'QeD, yabQeD je HaDbogh HaDwI'pu'
po'wI'pu' je, DuSaQDaq QIjmeH tlhIngan Hol lo'mo', qoj Qu' Quj je DuD
luneHmo' neH.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Æujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÆed, deâwiâÆed,
yabÆed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÆdaq Æijmeh
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Æuâ Æuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog xujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holxed, deâwiâxed, yabxed
je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaxdaq xijmeh ÅiÅan hol
loâmoâ, qoj xuâ xuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Êujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÊed, deâwiâÊed,
yabÊed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÊdaq Êijmeh
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Êuâ Êuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Èujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÈed, deâwiâÈed,
yabÈed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÈdaq Èijmeh
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Èuâ Èuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog qÌujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holqÌed, deâwiâqÌed,
yabqÌed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaqÌdaq
qÌijmeh ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj qÌuâ qÌuj je dud lunehmoâ
neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog Éujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holÉed, deâwiâÉed,
yabÉed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaÉdaq Éijmeh
ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj Éuâ Éuj je dud lunehmoâ neh.
Sar jeswiâmaâ: jes hov leÅ parhaâwiâpuâ, sov lunehmoâ
âej yuâ lunehmoâ; jes je dabog êujwiâpuâ, ÅiÅan âosbog
gotqoqâeâ tehmoh lunehmoâ; jes je holêed, deâwiâêed,
yabêed je hadbog hadwiâpuâ poâwiâpuâ je, dusaêdaq
êijmeh ÅiÅan hol loâmoâ, qoj êuâ êuj je dud lunehmoâ
neh.
Now here is the same set all uppercased:
SAR JESWI'MA': JES HOV LENG PARHA'WI'PU', SOV LUNEHMO' 'EJ YU'
LUNEHMO'; JES JE DABOGH QUJWI'PU', TLHINGAN 'OSBOGH GHOTQOQ'E' TEHMOH
LUNEHMO'; JES JE HOLQED, DE'WI'QED, YABQED JE HADBOGH HADWI'PU'
PO'WI'PU' JE, DUSAQDAQ QIJMEH TLHINGAN HOL LO'MO', QOJ QU' QUJ JE DUD
LUNEHMO' NEH.
SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÆUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÆED, DEâWIâÆED,
YABÆED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÆDAQ ÆIJMEH
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÆUâ ÆUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.
SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG XUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLXED, DEâWIâXED, YABXED
JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAXDAQ XIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL
LOâMOâ, QOJ XUâ XUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.
**SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÊUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÊED, DEâWIâÊED,
YABÊED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÊDAQ ÊIJMEH
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÊUâ ÊUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.
**SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÈUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÈED, DEâWIâÈED,
YABÈED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÈDAQ ÈIJMEH
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÈUâ ÈUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.
SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG QÌUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLQÌED, DEâWIâQÌED,
YABQÌED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAQÌDAQ
QÌIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ QÌUâ QÌUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ
NEH.
SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG ÉUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLÉED, DEâWIâÉED,
YABÉED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAÉDAQ ÉIJMEH
ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ ÉUâ ÉUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ NEH.
SAR JESWIâMAâ: JES HOV LEÅ PARHAâWIâPUâ, SOV LUNEHMOâ
âEJ YUâ LUNEHMOâ; JES JE DABOG êUJWIâPUâ, ÅIÅAN âOSBOG
GOTQOQâEâ TEHMOH LUNEHMOâ; JES JE HOLêED, DEâWIâêED,
YABêED JE HADBOG HADWIâPUâ POâWIâPUâ JE, DUSAêDAQ
êIJMEH ÅIÅAN HOL LOâMOâ, QOJ êUâ êUJ JE DUD LUNEHMOâ
NEH.
**Note too that if Ê or È were chosen, a new capital letter character
would have to be added to Unicode as it does not yet exist.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/