tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Sep 17 20:26:44 2008

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Syntax, semantics

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

I think it would help the grammatical discussion of -moH if we clarified 
whether we were talking about syntax or semantics, and whether we're 
sure what's what.


tlhIngan Hol vIghoj
I learn Klingon.

Syntax: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntax>
    * {jIH} is the subject
      <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_(grammar)>
    * {tlhIngan Hol} is the object
      <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_(grammar)>

Semantics: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics>
    * {jIH} is the agent <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_(grammar)>
    * {tlhIngan Hol} is the theme
      <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theme_(linguistics)>


The agent is the participant that carries out an action. The theme is 
the participant upon whom the action is carried out. It doesn't matter 
where the word is or if it's declined; if these categories can be 
determined, they can be applied anywhere. How the sentence is spoken is 
irrelevant; what matters is the meaning.

Subject and object have more complicated definitions. See their 
Wikipedia articles. However, in Klingon, given a well-formed, standard 
sentence, you can readily identify the subject and object. The subject 
comes after the verb; the object comes before. What the words in these 
positions mean is irrelevant; what's important is their case. Since 
Klingon doesn't decline nouns for being subjects or objects, these are 
purely positional cases.


mughojmoH SoS
Mother teaches me.
Mother causes me to learn.

Syntax:
    * The subject is {SoS}
    * The object is {jIH} (elided, but indicated with the prefix)

This is invariable. Again, it doesn't matter what the nouns MEAN; 
whether they are subject or objects depends entirely on their positions.

Semantics:
    * The agent is ???
    * The patient <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_(grammar)> or
      theme is ???


This is the real point of contention. Is Mother the agent because she is 
causing something to happen, or am I the agent because I am learning? 
Which part of the verb is dominant here, the stem or the suffix? If I am 
the agent, what thematic relation 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation> does Mother have? Do 
the semantics actually matter?

Typically, when I talk about "object" on this list, I mean "object," not 
"patient" or "theme" or some other semantic role.

-- 
SuStel
Stardate 8714.9

Back to archive top level