tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Mar 02 09:44:36 2007
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Re: lutlh Hol ngu'meH mIw
Doq:
> >> DIvI' Hol lujatlhlaHbogh tlhInganpu''e' law' law' tlhIngan Hol
> >> jatlhlaHbogh tera'nganpu''e' law' puS.
Voragh:
> > "Federation Standard-speaking Klingons are more (numerous) than
> > Klingon-speaking Terrans."
> >
> > or more colloquially:
> >
> > "There are more Federation Standard-speaking Klingons than
> Klingon-speaking
> > Terrans."
or even more colloquially:
"There are more Klingons who speak Federation Standard than Terrans who
speak Klingon."
"More Klingons speak Federation Standard than Terrans speak Klingon."
> > Why have you tagged both {tera'nganpu'} and {tlhInganpu'} with
> > {-'e'}? That defeats the whole purpose of a topic/focus marker. If both
> > are topics, neither is the topic.
lay'tel SIvten:
>In both cases it marks the head noun of the {-bogh} phrase, a secondary use
>of {-'e'} related to its primary uses as topic/focus marker.
If so, it's unnecessary as I think more people would assume that {law'} "be
many" refers to the two explicitly marked plural nouns {tlhInganpu'} and
{tera'nganpu'}. If the subject nouns of the {-bogh} phrases were marked:
DIvI' Hol'e' lujatlhlaHbogh tlhInganpu' law' law' tlhIngan Hol'e'
lujatlhlaHbogh
tera'nganpu' law' puS.
Federation Standard is spoken more by Klingons than Klingon is by Terrans.
There is more Federation Standard spoken by Klingons than Klingon spoken
by Terrans.
{Hol law'} means "many languages". If this is the meaning intended, {Hol}
should probably have the plural marker for clarity, or the {lu-} prefix
should be omitted:
DIvI' Holmey'e' jatlhlaHbogh tlhInganpu' law' law' tlhIngan Holmey'e'
jatlhlaHbogh
tera'nganpu' law' puS.
There are more (varieties of) Federation Standard spoken by Klingons
than (the
varieties of) Klingon spoken by Terrans.
> > (You've also forgotten to repeat {lu-} on the second {jatlhlaHbogh};
> both subjects are plural.)
>
>That's what I thought, too, at first, until I realized that this way implies
>the plurality of Klingon languages, including dialects. We still know very
>little about the linguistic status of the entire Klingon empire.
Using your interpretation:
DIvI' Hol'e' lujatlhlaHbogh tlhInganpu' law' law' tlhIngan Holmey'e'
jatlhlaHbogh
tera'nganpu' law' puS.
More Federation Standard is spoken by Klingons than the (many/various)
Klingon
languages spoken by Terrans.
But {DIvI' Hol law'} means "many Federation languages". If Federation
Standard is a single standardized language, as the name (in Standard)
implies, then Doq needs to shift the focus marker {-'e'} in the second clause:
DIvI' Hol lujatlhlaHbogh tlhInganpu''e' law' law' tlhIngan Hol(mey)'e'
jatlhlaHbogh
tera'nganpu' law' puS.
More Klingons speak Federation Standard than Terrans speak the many
Klingon languages.
More Klingons speak Federation Standard than the many Klingon languages
spoken by Terrans.
Shifting the focus marker to another noun - as well as using a different
verb prefix - within a law'/puS formula would be a fairly sophisticated
rhetorical device, depending on the close attention of one's
listeners. Not an unreasonable assumption for an accomplished orator; say,
a Klingon Cicero making a speech to the High Council.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons