tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Feb 10 12:14:16 2007
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Re: Introduction
- From: Alpha Omicron <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Introduction
- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:12:45 -0500
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naHQun wrote:
> On 2/10/07, Alpha Omicron <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi everyone, I'm a long-time student of Klingon, but have only now
>> decided to join the mailing-list.
>
> Welcome.
>
>> I suppose I'll pose a language question while I'm at it; where exactly
>> does a -meH clause go in a sentence? Intuitively I would assume it goes
>> at the beginning like a time marker or adverb, but I have seen it at the
>> end of sentences...
>>
>
> Here is what TKD says (formatting lost due to the mailing list)
>
> 6.2.4. Purpose clauses
>
> If an action is being done in order to accomplish something, or for
> the purpose of accomplishing something, the verb describing what is to
> be accomplished ends with the Type 9 suffix -meH, which may be
> translated for, for the purpose of, in order to. The purpose clause
> always precedes the noun or verb whose purpose it is describing.
>
> ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jagh la' The enemy commander wishes a truce
> (in order) to confer. [[p.65]]
>
> The phrase ja'chuqmeH rojHom a truce (in order) to confer is the
> object of the verb neH he/she wants it; the subject is jaghla' enemy
> commander The object is a noun rojHom truce proceeded by the purpose
> clause ja'chuqmeH for the purpose of conferring or in order to confer.
> (The verb is made up of ja' tell, -chuq each other; thus, confer is
> tell each other.)
>
> jagh luHoHmeH jagh lunejtaH They are searching for the enemy in
> order to kill him/her.
>
> Here the purpose clause is jagh luHoHmeH in order for them to kill the
> enemy, which is made up of the object noun jagh enemy preceding the
> verb luHoHmeH in order for them to kill him/her (lu- they—him/her, HoH
> kill, -meH for). It describes the purpose of the verb lunejtaH they
> are searching for him/her (lu- they—him/her, nej seek, search for,
> -taH continuous). Note that, just as in compound sentences, the object
> noun jagh enemy occurs before each verb for which it is the object.
> Thus, somewhat more literally, the sentence may be translated In order
> to kill the enemy, they are searching for the enemy.
> Furthermore, just as in compound sentences, the second of two
> identical nouns may be replaced by a pronoun or, if the context, is
> clear, left out altogether.
>
> jagh luHoHmeH ghaH lunejtaH
> jagh luHoHmeH lunejtaH They are searching for the enemy in order
> to kill him/her.
>
>
>
> Notes: (taken from http://teresh.tdonnelly.org/kliaddi.html)
> (formatting obviously lost as well)
>
> 1. Verbs with -meH can modify nouns as well as verbs, eg. pe'meH taj
> "cutting knife". They are able to take actual subjects and/or objects.
> [HQ v7n3p6; HQ v7n2p14; KGT, p.63]
>
> Commentary
>
> Although first stated in TKD, the full implications of this didn't
> become clear until later. We especially didn't realize the
> implications of the fact that nouns could be modified with a -meH verb
> which itself had subjects or objects (see below).
>
> 2. Such verbs can be used to express Sentences as Subjects, eg. nargh
> qaSuchmeH 'eb "the opportunity to visit you has passed". [HQ v7n2p14]
> Commentary
> Certain types of sentences require a verb phrase to be the subject of
> another verb. In English, these are usually expressed by sentences of
> the type "It is X that Y"; for example, "It is good to see you" is
> equivalent to "It is good that I see you", which is equivalent to "(I
> see you) is good." This is called a clefted expression; the
> Sentence-As-Subject, "(I see you)" is moved from subject position
> (with a change in form) to after the verb "good", and the dummy
> subject "It" serves as the marker of the clefted expression and points
> back to the clefted phrase.
> Klingon has no exact equivalent of this construction, but we have come
> to see that a verb phrase with -meH and a noun subject can express the
> same sort of relationship: QaQ qaleghmeH 'eb. There are several likely
> candidates for the head noun (i.e., the noun that serves as the actual
> subject and as the head of the -meH phrase: 'eb, Qu', ghu', etc. Note
> that this construction carries a sense of purpose that is absent in
> the English version; in most cases, this doesn't affect the meaning,
> but it may mean that certain nouns are not appropriate as head nouns.
>
> 3. Verbs with -meH must take verb prefixes, if only the 3-rd person
> zero-prefix, when appropriate. [HQ v8n2p12]
>
> Commentary
>
> The practical applications of my article cited above are that
>
> 1. the -meH verb can take objects when desired;
>
> 2. the -meH verb must take a prefix when the subject of the purpose
> clause is 1st or 2nd person (or plural 3rd person with singular 3rd
> person object);
>
> 3. when the subject of the purpose clause is indefinite, you can
> indicate this with -lu' or by 3rd person zero-suffix and no stated
> subject noun.
>
>
>
> ~naHQun
>
Thanks, I've read through most of that before, but having it all
together helped a lot.