tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 14 06:51:50 2006
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Re: mangpu' or negh?
- From: "QeS 'utlh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: mangpu' or negh?
- Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:51:31 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' Shane MiQogh, ja':
>This is "if I had killed him before he came". "If he left before I came"
>would be {jIghoSpa' mejchugh}.
mujang Shane MiQogh, ja':
>Oops, until i went back and checked, i didn't think you could have 2 of
>the same number suffix on 1 word, so pardon me on that error...
nuqjatlh? I don't have two of the same number suffix on a word in that
sentence fragment. Two or more rovers may be possible on one word -
{jIyInqu'laHbe'Qo'} "I refuse to be unable to live" is most likely to be
perfectly acceptable Klingon - but no others can.
>Indeed. It was an answer to the person who wrote an entire english sentance
>together and asked why it would be incorrect.
That was me. And my point was that the original discussion *wasn't* about
written language. You were asking how we isolate reliable word-boundary cues
in a spoken sentence, but then went on to discuss word-boundaries in written
Klingon, which was not the topic at hand.
Go to ter'eS's website and watch the Lego movies he has made:
http://teresh.tdonnelly.org/klinfilm.html
They're short Star Trek movies, in Klingon with English subtitles. (I
provided one of the voices for {chay' qay' yIHmey}.) They should give you a
bit of an idea of how Klingon is spoken. I also have some MP3 files of
spoken Klingon, if you'd like me to send them to you.
>Japanese managed to do it in about 26...
Surely you mean more than that. Even Rotokas, with its tiny inventory of 6
consonants and 5 vowels, yields 30 possible CV syllables.
>Though the exact calculation for 2 letters in klingon would be 125, 3
>letter
>sylobols would be 3125 and 4 letter would be 78125...
How did you arrive at these figures? There are 2541 possible native Klingon
syllables (i.e. ignoring {pIqarD} and {qIrq}), arranged thus:
CV syllables: 21 x 5 = 105
CVC syllables with non-round vowels: 21 x 3 x 21 = 1323
CVC syllables with round vowels: 21 x 2 x 20 = 840
CVw' and CVy' syllables with non-round vowels: 21 x 3 x 2 = 126
CVy' syllables with round vowels: 21 x 2 = 42
CVrgh syllables: 21 x 5 = 105
Obviously not all these combinations are used, but the majority of them are.
While the Mandarin writing system and other such hyperpolysymbolic writing
systems work perfectly well, I'm sure that Okrand has better things to do
than to devise the 1800-odd characters necessary to write Klingon
syllabically - and we have better things to do than learn such a system.
>Even you may breakit up in your head when reading it fluently. of course,
>you wouldn't notice it cause you're used to doing it.
Well, if you want to put it that way, I suppose everyone breaks up the words
in their head when they read a sentence, because that's how you understand
written text. However, there's no basis I can think of for saying it must
happen on a syllable-by-syllable basis, any more than it must happen on a
phoneme-by-phoneme basis.
QeS 'utlh
tlhIngan Hol yejHaD pabpo' / Grammarian of the Klingon Language Institute
not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
- Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh
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