tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Apr 11 12:44:38 2006

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Re: mangpu' or negh?

Shane MiQogh ([email protected]) 

So basically a SuvwI''a' Dun would be a "fish tale" in any case? More or less to describe only someone sacred such as Kahless or a High ranked military person? Such as "SuvwI'a' Dun <Kohlrak>" Kohlrak is a great... i don't know how to put this in english, more of a "God in war" or "great knight" or "Super great fighter" or something like that. lol
   
  I'm sure at any point SuvwI''a' Dunqu' would be by far an example of overdoing it. We couldn't do that with some one we love though (like: be''a' Dunqu') because that would be an insult to call some one a "extreemly super great girl" or such. cause, in that case, we'd be implying old age with ('a') which is something which is insulting to a girl... not as insulting as another idea that would be implied by the phrase, cause you'd never want to call a girl "fat", but i think it would be an intresting idea to come up with a way to say "great man" or "great woman" without implying weight or age. Considering great could also mean vast. Hm... it seems i'm getting philosophical... o.o
Steven Boozer <[email protected]> wrote:
  Voragh:
>Okrand explains the various words for "warrior" in KGT (p. 49-50):
>
>>The quintessential Klingon person, of course, is the warrior, and
>>there are several words for "warrior". The most commonly heard term
>>is {SuvwI'} (literally, "one who fights" or "fighter"). This word is
>>used in most circumstances and is never inappropriate. Indeed, it is
>>often preferred because it states explicitly what a warrior does:
>>fight. [...] The word {mang} is used when the warrior under discussion
>>is described in terms of his membership in a fighting unit (for example,
>>as a crew member on an attack cruiser). Perhaps for this reason it is
>>sometimes translated "soldier." The usual plural form of {mang} is a
>>different word altogether: {negh} ("warriors, soldiers"). The word
>>{mangpu'} is seldom used, but it is not ungrammatical. It carries with
>>it the notion that there are individuals (more than one {mang}) making
>>up the group; {negh} focuses on the group as a unit. A similar word,
>>{QaS}, normally translated "troops", is used in almost the same way
>>as {negh}, but it excludes officers. [...] The third word for
>>"warrior", {vaj}, refers more to the notion of warriorhood or the
>>idea of being a warrior than it does to an individual warrior.


Shane MiQogh:
> >so in general, if i want to say congrats to my soldiers, i could say
> >negh as a general, but to add emphasis that i am thinking of them more
> >as warriors than just soldiers, i would say vajpu'?

No, do not say *{vajpu'} since {vaj} is *not* an individual warrior. For 
that, use {SuvwI'} or {mang}. Think of {vaj} as the abstract idea of 
"warriorhood" or "all things warrior". In effect, {vaj} acts as a sort of 
adjective in that it always modifies another noun in all our known examples:

vaj Duj
a warrior's instincts (idiom)

It is noteworthy that in this idiom the word for "warrior" is not
the frequently heard {SuvwI'}, which would denote an individual
warrior, but rather {vaj}, which refers to the whole idea of being
a warrior... {SuvwI' Duj} would mean the instincts of a specific
warrior. (KGT 114)

vaj Duj chIj
navigate a warrior ship
(idiom: "have strength of character") KGT

vaj Duj DachIj
You navigate a warrior ship
(i.e. "You have strength of character.") KGT

vaj Duj chIjbe'
He/she does not navigate a warrior ship
(i.e. "He/she lacks strength of character.") KGT

vaj toDuj Daj ngeHbej DI vI'
Shooting space garbage is no test of a warrior's mettle. ST5
[lit. "Sharpshooting of the cosmos' litter inconclusively tests
a warrior's courage." TKW]

Okrand comments on this line from ST5:

Captain Klaa, who took it upon himself to take revenge against the
Federation's Captain James T. Kirk, remarked that he needed a real
challenge to test "a warrior's mettle", or {vaj toDuj} (literally,
"warrior courage"). He was not referring to his own courage or that
of any specific warrior (which would have been, in all likelihood,
{SuvwI' toDuj}), but rather to the kind of courage embodied in
being a warrior. (KGT 50)

> > and there are so
> >many ways to add emphasis, like vaj'a'pu' or vajpu' Dun or for the
> >most emphasis on how highly i think of them, vaj'a'pu' Dun.

Again, do not use {vaj} for this. Okrand has used {SuvwI'na'} "a 
true/authentic warrior" and {SuvwI''a'} "great warrior" in the meanings you 
want:

tlhIngan SuvwI'na' - Qapla'!
[Marc Okrand's inscription on a photo (DloraH)]

reH Suvrup SuvwI''a'
A great warrior is always prepared. PK

We've also seen {Dun} used indirectly with {SuvwI'} in a comparison:

qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS
You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy. ST5




--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons





			
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