tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 10 15:07:53 2006
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Re: mangpu' or negh?
lay'tel SIvten:
> >I thought this scattering implication was only when {-mey} was used.
> >Since {-pu'} is used here, does it still have this implication?
[-{mey}] can also be used with nouns referring to beings capable
of using language (those nouns which take {-pu'}). When it is so
used, it adds a notion of "scattered all about" to the meaning.
Compare: {puq} "child", {puqpu'} "children", {puqmey} "children
all over the place". The suffix {-mey} cannot be used with body
parts. It should be noted, however, that Klingon poets often
violate this grammatical rule in order to evoke particular moods
in their poetry. Thus, forms such as {tlhonmey} "nostrils scattered
all about" do occur. Until the subtle nuances of such constructions
are firmly grasped, however, it is suggested that students of
Klingon stick to the rules. (TKD 23)
QeS:
>Perhaps not "scattering", but definitely that of separation, or emphasis on
>individuality. To reiterate Voragh's quote:
>
> The word {mangpu'} is seldom used, but it is not ungrammatical.
> It carries with it the notion that there are individuals (more
> than one {mang}) making up the group; {negh} focuses on the
> group as a unit. (KGT p.50)
Another quote about using a plural suffix on an "inherently singular" noun:
Finally, some nouns in Klingons are inherently or always plural
in meaning, and therefore never take plural suffixes: {ray'}
"targets", {cha} "torpedoes", {chuyDaH} "thrusters". The singular
counterparts of such words are utterly distinct: {DoS} "target",
{peng} "torpedo", {vIj} "thruster". The singular forms may take
the {-mey} suffix, but that would carry the "scattered all about"
connotation: {DoSmey} "targets scattered all about", {pengmey}
"torpedoes all over the place". (TKD 23f)
>I think using {-mey} in this instance would just be considered insulting:
>{mangmey} "the incapable-of-language soldiers".
Indeed. I would not advise saying {mangmey} to a group of armed {mang}
(though one might get by referring to a group of enemy soldiers). As we
know, Klingons can get very touchy about grammatical mistakes:
It is grammatically correct to use the regular possessive suffixes
with nouns referring to beings capable of speech (as in {puqlIj}
"your child"), but such constructions are considered derogatory;
{joHwIj} for "my lord" borders on taboo. (TKD 25)
The only thing worse would be combining mispronuncation with gramma-
tical blundering, such as by saying {joQDu'wIj} ("my ribs") ... when
{joHpu'wI'} ("my Lords, my Ladies") is intended. Mistakes of this
kind are simply not tolerated and there are no recorded instances of
anyone living long enough to repeat the offense. (KGT 190)
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons