tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 10 14:54:56 2006

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Re: mangpu' or negh?

Shane MiQogh ([email protected]) 

so in general, if i want to say congrats to my soldiers, i could say negh as a general, but to add emphasis that i am thinking of them more as warriors than just soldiers, i would say vajpu'? and there are so many ways to add emphasis, like vaj'a'pu' or vajpu' Dun or for the most emphasis on how highly i think of them, vaj'a'pu' Dun.
Steven Boozer <[email protected]> wrote:  Shane MIQogh:
> >This intrests me, why negh instead of mangpu'?

QeS:
>{mangpu'} is actually acceptable Klingon, but carries some additional
>connotations that {negh} doesn't have. The difference between {mangpu'} and
>{negh} is that the former implies scattering or separation. If you told a
>platoon to split up and recon an area, I believe it would be perfectly
>normal Klingon for your commanding officer to come up and ask {nuqDaq chaH
>mangpu'} "where are the soldiers?". Furthermore, if someone said that to me,
>I would understand them to be implying "show me where each soldier is:
>where's your sergeant? where's your yeoman?". On the other hand, if they had
>said {nuqDaq ghaH negh}, I would understand that as meaning "show me the
>area where all the soldiers are: where is your platoon?". bIyaj'a'?
>
>Nevertheless, {negh} is the generally used plural of {mang}, and
>unfortunately, all I can say in answer to your question is "No particular
>reason". Or perhaps, no *longer* any particular reason: {negh} may have come
>from an old word meaning "platoon" or "group of soldiers" or something like
>that, which may be why it still behaves as grammatically singular.

Okrand explains the various words for "warrior" in KGT (p. 49-50):

The quintessential Klingon person, of course, is the warrior, and
there are several words for "warrior". The most commonly heard term
is {SuvwI'} (literally, "one who fights" or "fighter"). This word is
used in most circumstances and is never inappropriate. Indeed, it is
often preferred because it states explicitly what a warrior does:
fight. Other words for "warrior" are {mang} and {vaj}. The word {mang}
is used when the warrior under discussion is described in terms of his
membership in a fighting unit (for example, as a crew member on an
attack cruiser). Perhaps for this reason it is sometimes translated
"soldier." The usual plural form of {mang} is a different word alto-
gether: {negh} ("warriors, soldiers"). The word {mangpu'} is seldom
used, but it is not ungrammatical. It carries with it the notion that
there are individuals (more than one {mang}) making up the group;
{negh} focuses on the group as a unit. A similar word, {QaS}, normally
translated "troops", is used in almost the same way as {negh}, but it
excludes officers. All of the {negh} together make up something called
a {mangghom}. Literally, this is "warrior group" or "soldier group",
but it is usually translated as "army". The third word for "warrior",
{vaj}, refers more to the notion of warriorhood or the idea of being
a warrior than it does to an individual warrior.

There are a few other cases where the singular form is completely different 
than the (collective) plural: e.g. {peng}/{cha} "torpedo(es)", 
{vIj}/{chuyDaH} "thruster(s), {DoS}/{ray'} "target(s)", {Sup}/{jo} 
"resource(s)", {qempa'}/{no'} "ancestor(s)", {jengva'}/{ngop} "plate(s) 
(for eating)".

The etymology behind these is unknown.



--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons





			
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