tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Sep 29 19:10:20 2005

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Re: ta

QeS lagh ([email protected])



jIja'pu':
>But in that very same article, we're told that Klingon opinions differ on
>whether {-pu'} or {-mey} is proper for those birds:
>   "The plural suffix for birds is usually {-mey}, the general plural
>    suffix, as would be expected. There is a difference of opinion,
>    however, about which plural suffix to use for a few birds capable
>    of mimicking speech, such as the {vIlInHoD} and the {qaryoq} (and
>    the larger {qaryoq'a'}), with some Klingons using {-mey} but others
>    preferring {-pu'}, the plural suffix for beings capable of using
>    language." (HQ 10.4)
>While it does go on to say that Maltz prefers {-mey}, the fact that we're
>explicitly told that some Klingons do use {-pu'} shouldn't be ignored IMHO.
>Plus, we're not told whether one or the other is more common.

mujang Voragh, ja':
>As we know, explicitly marking plurality is optional in Klingon anyway:

Now it's my turn to be forgetful. {{:) That had completely slipped my mind.

>"Unlike English, however, the lack of a specific suffix for plural
>does not always indicate that the noun is singular. In Klingon, a
>noun without a plural suffix may still refer to more than one entity.
>The plurality is indicated by a pronoun, whether a verb prefix or a
>full word, or by context... Fortunately for students of Klingon, it
>is never incorrect to add a plural suffix to a noun referring to more
>than one entity. Even in those cases where it is unneccessary to do
>so."

"Even in those cases where it is unnecessary"... could that be referring to 
inherently plural nouns like {cha}, {ngop} and {negh} (thus ??{chamey}, 
??{neghpu'})?

>Though plural suffixes are not obligatory on nouns ({SuvwI'} can
>mean either "warrior" or "warriors"), Klingons are fussy about the
>verb prefixes.  (msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand 9/97)

Which is probably a consequence of the relative freedom that exists 
vis-à-vis the noun suffixes.

>The rule-obsessed prescriptivists won't like it but, as "Federation 
>linguist" Okrand plays the game, his grammar is supposed to be 
>descriptivist in nature - describing how the majority of Klingons speak the 
>standard {ta' Hol} dialect.  There's always a little variation that the 
>foreigner should be aware of, even if he doesn't speak that way 
>him/herself.

The variation that exists is just one reason why I love this language: 
things are not as restrictive as they may seem at first glance. 
Descriptivists forever, I say.

>Getting back to Data, I can imagine that Worf almost certainly considered 
>it as a thing when he first met it/him,

Knowing the general distrust that Klingons seem to have for thinking 
machines, that sounds likely.

>but may have gradually - almost without noticing it - began regarding him 
>as a person over the seven years he knew him, eventually becoming quite 
>friendly and often discussing the behavior of the humans they served with.  
>If Worf ever discussed his life on Enterprise in Klingon (say, in a letter 
>to his brother or in his personal log), I'll bet at some point he started 
>using the "person" suffixes WRT Data.  And while we're speculating here, I 
>can even imagine Worf speaking Klingon *with* Data on occasion just to keep 
>in practice; after all, Data can download the grammar and all relevant 
>dictionaries from the ship's computer to learn any known language virtually 
>instantaneously.  If so, the question now becomes:  "Which set of suffixes 
>would Data use to refer to himself?"  <g>

Judging by his yearning to be human throughout the series, he may well have 
used {-wI'} and {-pu'} just out of wishful thinking. {{:)

Savan,

QeS la'
taghwI' pabpo' / Beginners' Grammarian


not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
     - Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh

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