tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Oct 21 08:31:57 2005

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Re: targhmey

Steven Boozer ([email protected])



ghunchu'wI':
> >Must I remind you *again* of the counterexamples from TKD?
> >    nuqDaq 'oH Qe' QaQ'e'
> >    nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'
> >It's NOT a rule.

lay'tel SIvten:
> >And even if it *is* a rule, albeit unwritten, it still has canon
> >exceptions.

QeS la':
>ter'eS also makes a good point in observing that these counterexamples are
>both questions; I just searched my own canon database, and of the dozen or
>so examples of pronoun plus {-taH} I turned up, not one was a question. The
>reverse may not be true, and this may be an artefact of the small sample
>size (I only found about a dozen examples of pronoun + {-taH} all up), but
>it's probably something to consider.

I searched my notes for more counterexamples and here's the complete list 
(I think):

    nuqDaq 'oH Qe' QaQ'e'
    Where is a good restaurant? [TKD]

    nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'
    Where is the bathroom? [TKD, CK, PK, Radio Times]

    nuqDaq 'oH jengva''e'
    Where is the plate? [KGT 33]

    nuqDaq 'oH ngop'e'
    Where are the plates? [KGT 33]

    nuqDaq bIH ngop'e'
    Where are the plates? (childish error) [KGT 34]

ter'eS is right:  These are all questions, and all with {nuqDaq}.  Even the 
childish error over the inherently plural noun omits {-taH}.  The pattern 
for asking where something is generally is clearly {nuqDaq PRONOUN 
NOUN'e'?}  (Perhaps {-taH} is omitted since the location is completely 
unknown;  thus asking for its *continuous* location would be 
pointless.)  So my revised "rule" is:

Specific statement:  [NOUN1]Daq [PRONOUN]taH [NOUN2]'e'.

     bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'
     The sword is in the ocean. [KGT]

General question:    nuqDaq [PRONOUN] [NOUN2]'e'?

     nuqDaq 'oH 'etlh'e'
     Where is the sword?

Now the question becomes:  How does one ask a specific question (i.e. 
referring to a specific location)?

   ? bIQ'a'Daq 'oH'a' 'etlh'e'
   ? bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH'a' 'etlh'e'
     Is the sword in the ocean?

But since I can find no examples, it's possible that my second option might 
be understood as "Is the sword STILL in the ocean?"  (I.e. I know it was 
there before, but is it still there now?)



--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons






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