tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 24 14:11:47 2005
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RE: Qe'Daq maghoS/Qe' wIghoS (HQ3.3) final conclusion?
Christoph:
> > I've been reading HolQeD Vol 3, number 3 today, and now I'm wondering
> > if the issue of "ghoS"(object?) did get any final conclusion(i.e. word
> > from Okrand).
> >
> > In this issues "From the Grammarian's Desk", Captain Krankor concluded
> > that both "Qe'Daq maghoS" and "Qe' wIghoS" are valid.
> >
> > I'd now like to know if they both are supposed to mean the same, or if
> > there actually is a difference.
> >
> > I'd read "Qe'Daq maghoS" as "We're going to the (place where)
> > restaurant (is)", with a (possible) meaning(undertone?) of "We don't
> > know if the restaurant is still there, but we're going to the place
> > where it should be".
> >
> > While "Qe' wIghoS" would mean "We're going to the restaurant", meaning
> > "No matter where it's actual location is, we're going there.".
DloraH:
>Jump forward to HolQeD Dec 98, interview with Marc Okrand.
>Marc himself explains how it is.
If you don't have the back issues, here it is ...
[Interview in HolQeD 7.4 (Dec. 1998) on verbs of motion]
MO: Here's the way jaH works. jaH can be used, using your terminology
both transitively and intransitively. So, bIQtIqDaq jIjaH is "I go in
the river."
I'm moving along in the river, traveling in the river. You can also
say bIQtIqDaq vIjaH...
WM: You'd still use the -Daq?
MO: Yes. But you don't have to. That would be the way. -Daq or no
-Daq. The prefix makes the difference in meaning. jI- means I'm
moving along in someplace. vI- means I'm moving along to
someplace. You cannot say bIQtIq jIjaH.
(...)
WM: 'el - "enter."
MO: Same thing. Now, if you did say pa'Daq vI'el "I entered into the
room," you could say, well, that's overkill, but that's okay.
It's not like, "Oh, my God, I don't understand you," but you don't
need that.
WM: In the dictionary, you said that ghoS could be used either with or
without -Daq but it would be somewhat marked with the -Daq. Is
this true for jaH as well?
MO: Less marked? Yes, the same, with the vI-, not with the jI-.
WM: leng - "roam, travel."
MO: leng works like jaH. These are all okay:
yuQ vIleng or yuQDaq vIleng
I travel to the planet
yuQvo' jIleng
I roam away from the planet
yuQDaq jIleng
I roam (around/about) on the planet
This is not okay: yuQ jIleng
WM: paw - "arrive."
MO: Again, just like jaH, it depends. Duj vIpaw means "I arrive at the
ship;" DujDaq jIpaw means "I arrive on the ship," that is, I arrive
via the ship or something like that. And it would probably be okay
to say DujDaq vIpaw for "I arrive at the ship." But Duj jIpaw
strikes me as odd.
***************************************************************************
Here's a later post Okrand made to startrek.klingon on the same topic:
From: Marc Okrand <...>
Newsgroups: startrek.klingon
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999
Subject: Re: tlhIngan
Will Martin wrote:
>And since I don't have the interview with me, was chegh "return" one of
>those verbs that acts like ghoS and jaH in terms of having the locative
>suffix optional on the direct object, or is it more like Hop and Sum
>with assumptions made about relating the speaker with the place returned
>to?
chegh "return" seems to work like this:
lupDujHomDaq jIchegh
"I return on the shuttle."
lupDujHom vIchegh
"I return to the shuttle."
lupDujHomDaq may'Duj vIchegh
"I return to the battle cruiser on the shuttle"
tera'vo' Qo'noS vIchegh
"I return to Kronos from Earth"
If the place being returned to is mentioned (as in the final three
sentences), the verb takes a pronominal prefix that indicates the object
(vI- in the examples).
A different verb, tatlh, is used for "return" in the sense of returning a
library book or returning a weapon to the weapons rack.
If someone were to say something like "I return the plate to the table,"
the appropriate verb would be tatlh:
raSDaq jengva' vItatlh
Though not common, it is also possible to use tatlh with the reflexive
suffix -'egh ("do something to oneself") to convey a meaning similar to
that of {chegh}:
pa'Daq jItatlh'egh
"I return to the room"
The tatlh'egh form seems to suggest that the doer of the action is forcing
himself/herself to do something, perhaps because it is difficult or not
desirable.
***************************************************************************
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons