tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 11 16:35:44 2005

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Re: KLBC An attempt

QeS lagh ([email protected]) 

ghItlhpu' juDmoS:
>I know there are quite probably a substantial number of grammar errors in 
>this... but I found what I believe to be the best way I could to say what I 
>wanted to say...any suggestions/help would be appreciated..

qavan, juDmoS! I haven't seen you on the list before, so I'll do the 
mandatory introduction thing. {{;) I'm QeS lagh, the current Beginners' 
Grammarian. I've been entrusted by the {Hol po'wI'pu'} with the job of 
answering questions from beginners. I see you already know how to use the 
KLBC subject line - majQa'!

What you might want to do is post the English versions of the Klingon 
sentences you wanted to translate. A few of these sentences I couldn't 
understand, so I'll reserve judgment on those until you tell us what you 
meant.

>HIlupmeH Hopqu' jISo'nIS.
Is this "In order that you transport me, I need to hide far away"? Firstly, 
{Hop} isn't an adverb, but an adjectival verb; instead of {Hopqu' jISo'nIS}, 
you can say {Daq HopDaq jISo'nIS} "I need to hide in a faraway place". Also, 
while this isn't strictly canon, in my experience I could never get any type 
9 verb suffix to work sensibly with the imperative prefixes. (Try it: see if 
you can work out what {yISo'bogh}, {yISo'DI'} or {yISo'ghach} might mean.) 
Just use the ordinary prefix and say {cholupmeH} "in order that you 
transport me".

>puqbe' wIjwI' vIngaHpu' 'ej batlhDaj vItIchqu' (ha-ha).
I assume that {wIjwI'} was intended as "my". If that's the case, you don't 
need to use both suffixes at once, just one at a time: {puqbe'wI'} "my 
daughter". I couldn't find {ngaH} in my copy of TKD, so I'm not sure what 
you meant by the first half. As well, if you're talking about the honour of 
a specific person, use the noun {quv}; Marc Okrand described the difference 
in HolQeD 12:3 (p. 9).

>ghaHvo' Deb vatlh qelI'qampu' chuq vItu'lu'.
"From him there are one hundred kellicams of the desert's distance". 
Interesting way of putting it.

Firstly, you can't use {vatlh} "hundred" on its own: you have to say how 
many hundreds, just like English. So say {wa'vatlh} "one hundred". Second, 
since {qelI'qam} isn't something that can use language, don't use {-pu'} to 
form the plural; use {-mey}. As well, when you say {vItu'lu'}, that means 
that "I, me" ({jIH}) becomes the object of the sentence: "someone finds me". 
But you've already got an object in the sentence: {Deb wa'vatlh qelI'qammey 
chuq}. So say instead {tu'lu'} "one finds it" (the distance). Altogether: 
{ghaHvo' Deb wa'vatlh qelI'qammey chuq tu'lu'}.

And just as a matter of style, Klingon tends to focus more upon the verb in 
a sentence, not the noun. Personally, I'd probably recast this to something 
like "The area between us measures 100 kellicams": {wa'vatlh qelI'qam 'ab 
maH joj}. You can say something about the desert in another sentence: one 
English sentence often recasts to two or three in Klingon, and that's a 
perfectly acceptable way of doing this.

>jISopnISbe' ej jItlhutlhnISbe' 'ej poH vIghajbe' tugh.
I think I understand what you meant by this one: "I do not need to eat and I 
do not need to drink, and soon I will not have time to."

First off, watch the apostrophe in the word {'ej}. Apostrophe is a letter in 
its own right, and can make a big difference in meaning: {po} "morning", 
{po'} "be expert". Next, {tugh} is an adverb, and comes at the start of the 
sentence (see TKD section 6.7): {tugh poH vIghajbe'}. And again from a 
purely stylistic point of view, I'm not sure that {poH ghaj} "have a period 
of time" is what you want here - it's very Anglocentric IMHO. {DuH jon} 
"capture an opportunity" is probably better: so{jISopnISbe' 'e' 
jItlhutlhnISbe' 'ej tugh DuH vIjonlaHbe'} "I don't need to eat and I don't 
need to drink and soon I will not be able to capture the opportunity".

>jIQuptaHvIS muHoH SuvtaH, HoHtaH, HIq, be'pu' je'
"While I am stupid, fighting, killing, alcohol and women will kill me"?

Again, watch the apostrophe: {je} means "and", {je'} means "to buy".

Also, {SuvtaH} and {HoHtaH} are verbs, not nouns, so they can't be joined to 
other nouns with {je}. You'd need to add {-ghach} to make these nouns: 
{SuvtaHghach}, {HoHtaHghach}. Just be careful not to overuse {-ghach}; it's 
difficult for beginners to grasp, and {-ghach} can't go on a verb that has 
no other suffix. (Even I still have trouble with it.) So: {jIQuptaHvIS muHoH 
SuvtaHghach, HoHtaHghach, HIq be'pu' je}.

>jIqettaH. jISo'taH. jIlujtaH. jISaQtaH.
These are all fairly simple: "I am running. I am hiding. I am losing. I am 
screaming." All are correct - majQa'!

>jItoDlaHbogh ratlh yInwIj neH.
I'm not sure about the meaning of this one. Verbs that use {-bogh} should 
always have an associated noun: {puq vIleghbogh} "the child whom I saw", 
{muleghbogh puq} "the child who saw me". We have exactly one canon instance 
of a {-bogh} verb without an associated noun, and it causes arguments every 
single time. :)

>HuDDaq jIQampu' 'ej  lalDan vIbuSHa'.
"I have stood on the mountain and I ignore religion". maj.

>qo' vIghaj 'e' vIHarpu'.
"I have believed that I have a world". The grammar's mostly OK, but you 
can't use a type 7 verb suffix on a verb with {'e'}, so {'e' vIHarpu'} is 
illegal. Just use {'e' vIHar}.

>jIbIv 'ej jIQaghqu'bej
"I transgress and I definitely make a big mistake". maj.

>jIje' 'e' vImaSlu' jInIHtaH
I'm not sure what you mean by this either. But a couple of things to 
remember: First off, we have a special pronoun for when you want to say {'e' 
(verb)-lu'}: {net} (TKD section 5.1). Instead of {'e' maSlu'}, you'd say 
{net maS}.

Also, when you use {net}, it's not really possible to use {vI-} on the verb, 
because the subject is indefinite and the object is the previous sentence - 
which is third person. So instead of {'e' vImaSlu'}, just say {net maS}.

If you post what you meant by the other sentences, then we can tell you a 
bit more about where you went wrong. But there's a lot of this that was 
correct, so well done and keep it up! yIghItlhtaH!

Savan,

QeS lagh
taghwI' pabpo' / Beginners' Grammarian


not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' qan je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
     - Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh

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