tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 26 14:48:30 2005
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Re: *QISmaS!
- From: "QeS la'" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: *QISmaS!
- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:48:17 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' Phil, ja':
>Hello Friends and thlingan Hol jatlhwI'
Greetings, Phil! My name is QeS la', and I'm the KLI list's Beginners'
Grammarian, or BG for short. What that means is that the previous
Grammarians of the KLI have entrusted me with the job of responding to
queries from beginners in the language, and to make suggestions to correct
grammar of beginner posts.
If you specifically want me to answer a grammar query, or would like me to
check the grammar of something you've written, just begin the subject line
of your email with the letters KLBC. That flags the message for my
attention, and gives me the right of first strike, as it were, on responding
to the grammatical accuracy of the message. Others may respond to the
content, but no-one can make any comments on the grammar of a message marked
with KLBC until after I've had a go; in part, this is to prevent beginners
being intimidated by a flood of corrections. :)
If you don't know about them already, there are three sites you should know
about.
The KLI homepage:
/
The KLI Wiki:
/wiki/
The KLI list's FAQ:
http://higbee.cots.net/Holtej//klingon/faq.htm
DloraH's suggestion is right on the money - if you can find Klingon for the
Galactic Traveller (usually abbreviated to KGT), it will give you a lot more
vocabulary and explanations of usage.
> QuchQiSmaS peghaj
Okay, let's begin learning. :)
In Klingon, the adjective (strictly, a stative verb) follows the noun it
modifies; read The Klingon Dictionary (usually abbreviated to TKD), section
4.4: {lojmIt Doq} "a red door". For "a happy Christmas", you need {QISmaS
Quch}. As well, I like that you tried to make sure that the imperative was
formed right, with a plural subject; however, the pronoun prefix {pe-} can
only be used if there is no object in the sentence. Here, there is: {QISmaS
Quch}. Therefore, you would need the prefix {yI-} "2nd person plural subject
- 3rd person singular object".
Also, just from a stylistic point of view, make sure you always use the
capital I. It makes no difference to the information content, but it's an
orthographic convention, and to those who have been around the language a
long time, it's jarring; like spelling "English" as /eNgLiSh/. (Note also
that *{QISmaS} isn't a real Klingon word, just a transliteration. Try not to
transliterate if you can avoid it; I used *QISmaS here solely because it is
easily recognised and it has shown up in fandom before.)
SoHvaD Quchjaj je QISmaSlIj! (May your Christmas be happy for you also!)
> wIjatlh thlingon Hol vIghojtaH
I assume by this that you meant "I am learning to speak Klingon". That's a
tricky one to do. Firstly, there's no need for the pronoun prefix {wI-},
which means "we (do something to) it"; you'd need {vI-}. Next, the way I
would do this is to use the suffix {-meH} and make what's called a purpose
clause: "I am learning in order that I speak Klingon". Have a read of TKD
section 6.2.4 to get an idea on how to do this. Once you've read that, have
another go at translating it. (I won't tell you how to do it yet; not unless
you get really stuck. :D)
>My name is Phil. I'm a primary school teacher from London, England and a
>student of mediaeval European languages.
Many of us here were actually drawn into Klingon from linguistic fields, not
from Star Trek. For instance, I'm a student of the Northwest Caucasian
family, Voragh speaks Russian, and Holtej did his Ph.D. dissertation in the
machine representation of American Sign Language.
>I'm a newcomer to this wonderful language having received the Klingon
>dictionary as a christmas gift.
>The language is graceful and beautiful and the book I have is very easy to
>use
>however it makes no pretence at being exhaustive.
As with any language, there is a vast amount of grammatical and syntactic
rules in Klingon, and many of them have to be worked out based on
implications and consequences of what is written in TKD. There are many
glaring gaps in the grammar written in TKD, and a few outright
inconsistencies, so we have to work out how to deal with all of those. The
various back issues of HolQeD have dozens of articles that work through some
particular aspect of Klingon grammar, and consider what the further
implications of those rules may be, so if you can, get a hold of as many
back issues of HolQeD as you can.
>I have joined the institute hoping to find resources and communicate with
>Klingon language learners and users. Any help and advice offered would be
>gratefully appreciated.
We're all happy to help. I subscribe to the idea that the only stupid
question is the one not asked.
My advice would be to read TKD, and then when you've finished, read it
again. Then again. Read everything in Klingon that you can get your hands
on, but as DloraH said, don't be too ambitious with your writing just yet.
The list as a whole are happy to look at any message sent, and some of the
best Klingon speakers in the world post to this list, so if you have any
questions, just ask.
You will probably also want to compile your own vocabulary list, to correct
the typographic and other errors in TKD (which are not insignificant). When
you've gained a little knowledge, I found it useful to translate simple
sentences you hear every day into Klingon inside your head; Klingon sentence
structure often differs from English structure, and the more practice you
get with the Klingon word order and structures, the better.
vaDjaj yaDDu'lIj!
QeS la'
taghwI' pabpo' / Beginners' Grammarian
not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
- Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh
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