tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 21 13:30:21 2004

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Re: paghHu'/paghleS

cheesbro ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

> In fact, I would argue that there is just as much to defeat the proposal
> -- namely, that we do know the Klingon number system originally did not
> have a concept of 'zero', so it's quite likely that /paghHu'/ is
> nonsensical in that respect (kinda like saying "the zeroth day of the
> month").

Where do you get that they didn't have the concept of 'zero'?
The early count system didn't use 0 as a place holder in numbers with more than 
one digit.  But nothing says they didn't have pagh - zero, nothing, absence of 
anything.


> nonsensical in that respect (kinda like saying "the zeroth day of the

Nonsensical, yes, but we DO have canon of zeroth.


> I also think it's interesting to note that in the TKD, section 5.2, zero
> is NOT listed in the list of "Klingon Numbers". 

I noticed the number 21 isn't listed there either.  It must be a special 
number.  And you can't say that list is of the number forming digits, because 
10 (wa'maH) isn't a digit.  


> It appears later, in the simple statement, "Zero is /pagh/." 

But it is in there, and it is no more "simple" than "4 loS".  Actually the list 
of numbers is more simple than the complete sentence for pagh.


> This could reinforce the idea that
> /pagh/ is 'special' and not necessarily considered the same kind of
> 'number' that would be used to craft things.

"Zero" is just as 'special' with humans.  When I'm teaching my two year old to 
count I go from 1 to 10.

And of course in the computer world "zero" does have a 'value'.  "diskdrive 
number 0".


True, (paghHu'/paghleS) is not canon and we are not allowed to make stuff up.  
But is does kind of fit the other pagh slang we have.  Would a klingon see the 
same connection; we don't know.  Do our discussions here affect MO's expansion 
of the language?  I'm guessing he would not admit such, even if it were true.


DloraH

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