tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun May 16 00:59:53 2004
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Re: {'e'}
- From: "QeS lagh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: {'e'}
- Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:56:30 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' SuStel:
>I don't think there's any problem using {'e'} when it's used as an object
>and it's clear what sentence it refers to. One needn't take "previous
>sentence" quite so literally.
That's what I meant when I replied to this question. Like many definitions
in TKD, "(previous sentence)" is only there to disambiguate the word "that".
jIghItlhpu':
>2) I don't think that {'e' tlhob X} is possible when referring to one of
>your own sentences. To say "He asked where the toilet is" you would say
>{tlhob. <nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'> jatlh.} You can {tlhob} a person - for
>instance, {mutlhob Qanqor} "Krankor asked me" (probably better is "Krankor
>asked a question of me") - but I am pretty sure you can't {tlhob} a
>sentence
>unless it's someone else's, in which case you *must* use {'e'} so they
>know what you're talking about.
jangpu' SuStel:
>I don't see any reason to distinguish between my own sentences and someone
>else's.
Then what about {'e' neHbe' vavwI'}? If you say {DIHIvlaH} "we are able to
attack them" and you tack {neH} on, then you'd say {DIHIvlaH vIneH}. But if
someone else says {DIHIvlaH} and you want to tack on {neH}, you'd say {'e'
vIneH}. In this case, you distinguish in order to make context clear.
jIghItlhtaH:
>This is true for all other verbs involving actions of speaking AFAIK:
>{jang},
>{jach}, {ghel}, {jat}... you get the picture.
jangtaH SuStel:
>The only true verbs of speaking are {jatlh} and {ja'}. The rest are simply
>verbs.
teH. That's why I said "verbs involving actions of speaking", and not "verbs
of speech". :) These other verbs do describe *ways* of speaking, but they're
not true verbs of speech.
jIghItlhtaH:
>I agree that {tlhob lay'tel SIvten} would work, but not in the way that you
>think it does. {tlhob lay'tel SIvten} would be subject-only, translated by
>"Steven asked". The null prefix on {tlhob} is [3rd-subject], not
>[3rd-subject plus 3rd-object]. So {'e' vItlhobbe'qu' jIH. tlhob lay'tel
>SIvten} would be "I did not ask that. Steven asked."
jangtaH SuStel:
>This would also work, because one may elide a repeated pronoun in the same
>position (and {'e'} is a pronoun).
Ahhh... bIlugh. jIQagh. DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu'.
QeS lagh
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