tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 13 11:27:12 2004

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RE: DCKL translation problems: {tlhogh}

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

Quvar:
> >> does {tlhogh} "marriage" mean
> >> a) the state of being united:  {Qapbe'chu' tlhoghmaj}
> >> b) the act of marrying:  {wa'Hu' tlhoghmaj wIlop}
> >>
> >> Actually, the problem is not the klingon, or the english, it's the german!
> >> Very often an english word can mean two different things, which are
> >> translated into german with two different words. Here we have "Ehe"
> >> and "Hochzeit, Heirat".

qurgh:
> > Both your examples read to me as the same idea. The act of marrying 
> could be
> > defined as the "act of being united".
> > What's the difference between the two German words?

Russ:
>Well, in English there's the "marriage" which is the ceremony itself (which
>is the German "Hochzeit", right?) (option b below) and then there's the
>"marriage" that follows, which is the union of the husband & wife (or
>whatever combination (which is the German "Ehe", right?) (option a below).
>Two different things.
>
>Where's the canon master about tlhogh?

This is an old problem for Klingonists who want to talk about their families.

{tlhogh} has never been used in canon so we don't know whether it refers to 
the marriage ceremony (the wedding), the state of marriage (matrimony), or 
both.  The canon verbs for "marry" are {Saw} for the groom and {nay} for 
the bride; neither have been used in canon.

Non-canon nouns I've seen on the list for the marriage ceremony are 
*{naltay} and *{tlhoghtay}.

Here's what I have WRT Klingon marriage in Trek:

"The phrase [{naH jajmey}] 'vegetable days' ... refers to one's youth, a 
time before reaching an age considered appropriate for marriage. The 
imagery is of a plant, rooted but growing, just as a Klingon youth still 
needs grounding (the home) for nourishment (teaching) in order to grow 
spiritually." [Okrand, KGT 110]

Martok compared getting married to a war breaking out: "A long, grueling, 
intoxicating war." (DS9 "Strange Bedfellows)

To divorce Quark in DS9 "House of Quark", Grilka shouted *N'Gos tlhogh 
cha!* ("This marriage is dissolved!") at him.  So, *IF* we accept this 
Paramount source (since we have nothing else), we ignore the all-purpose 
particle *cha* - which the Paramount writers add to just about every 
Klingon sentence they write - leaving us with the phrase *{tlhogh ngoS} 
"dissolve the marriage" which is not a bad way of saying "divorce".

AFAIK, that's it.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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