tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 09 09:29:06 2004

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Re: Newcomer Question: Number-Forming Suffixes

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

bIjaj wrote:
> > Anyway, the reason I'm writing is this: as mentioned in the TKD, the number
> > suffixes {-SaD} and {-SanID} are used in roughly the same frequency.
> > However, I seem to remember a later resource saying something about young
> > Klingons preferring one of them over the over...? I assumed that such a
> > thing will be found in the KGT if at all, but I haven't been able to find
> > such a paragraph there.

ngabwI':
>Nor I. In fact, I cannot find any occurence of either version of "thousand"
>anywhere in KGT. Perhaps a certain Grammarian with a vast database of canon
>can help us out? }}; )

Oddly enough, there's -no- mention whatsoever of {SaD} or {SanID} in KGT.

Here's all the information I have on this question:

   Higher numbers are formed by adding special number-forming elements
   to the basic set of numbers (1-9) ... Both {SaD} and {SanID} are
   equally correct for "thousand", and both are used with roughly equal
   frequency. It is not known why this number alone has two variants.
   [TKD p.53]

Looking at the corpus, though, we can see that {SaD} is much more common 
than {SanID}:

   qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD
   4,000 throats may be cut in one night by a running man. (TKD & TKW)

   naDev bIHtaH.  cha'SaD DeQ.  tugh!
   Here they are. 2,000 credits. Hurry up! (PK)

   vaghSaD DeQ HInob.  DaH yIDIl!
   Give me 5,000 credits!  Pay now! (PK)

   vaghSaD DeQ HInob
   Give me 5,000 credits! (PK)

   chorghSaD qelI'qam HIvchuq 'e' vInoH.
   Estimating attack range in 8,000 kellicams. (ST5)

   wa'SaD
   one thousand (STC:KLS)

   vaghSaD wejvatlh loSmaH Soch
   5,347 (STC:KLS)

   wejvatlh SochmaH vagh SaD cheb'a'mey ngI' Duj
   Mass: 8.7 KT (KBoP)

   vagh SanID ben buDbe' wamwI'pu'.
   5,000 years ago, hunters were not lazy. (st.k 11/99)

{SaD} = 8 occurrences (9 if you count the "4000 throats" example in TKD & 
TKW twice)
{SanID} = 1 occurrence

A couple of observations:

1) {SaD} may or may not be written as one word with the unit number.  It's 
written separately in the TKD, TKW and KBoP examples, but as one word in 
the KLS (Star Trek Continuum: Klingon Linguistic Studies) examples.  (The 
PK and ST5 examples are not conclusive as they're simply my transcription 
of the actors' *oral* lines.)  I've always assumed that it was written as 
one word - like {maH} and {vatlh} - but looking at all these examples 
together, it seems that Okrand may prefer it written separately.

2) {SanID} is the only example used in a date stamp with {ben} - also 
written separately.  Whether this means that {SanID} is the form used in 
dates can't be determined on the basis of a single example.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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