tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 09 09:26:46 2003

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Re: lyrics

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

At 08:00 PM Monday 9/8/2003, you wrote:
> >> ..."We go from West to East Berlin. West to East Berlin."
>
>ja' Tyler Fisher <[email protected]>:
> >I'm sure others might have better suggestions, but you might try this:
> >
> >  {*Berlin* 'ev tIngvo' *Berlin* chanDaq maghoS.
> >  *Berlin* 'ev tIngvo' *Berlin* chanDaq.}

ghunchu'wI':
>Watch out for the difference between "East of Berlin" and "Berlin of the
>East".  I'm pretty sure {chan Berlin} is right; I'm *certain* that {Berlin
>chan} is not.

lugh ghunchu'wI'.  The use of cardinal directions in Klingon is a bit 
tricky.  Here's part of Okrand's relevant explanation (startrek.klingon 
11/21/99):

   But Klingon {chan} does not work the same as English "east". From the
   Klingon point of view, it makes no sense to say that something is "in
   the east". One can go towards the east, something can be to the east of
   something else, but nothing can actually be "in" the east. No matter how
   far eastward you go, there's something still to your east. Thus the
   awkward translations "area eastward, area towards the east" and so forth.
   (And, of course, the same can be said for the other directions.) These
   Klingon direction nouns work in the same manner as other nouns of location
   (nouns used to express prepositional concepts) such as {Dung} "area above,"
   {bIng} "area below", and {retlh} "area beside, area next to". Thus, just
   as {nagh Dung}, literally "rock area-above" or "rock's area-above" is used
   for "above the rock", {veng chan}, literally "city area-eastward" or "city's
   eastward area" is commonly translated "east of the city". Depending on the
   sentence in which the phrase is used, the second noun in this construction
   (in this case {chan} "area eastward") could take the locative suffix {-Daq},
   as in: {veng chanDaq jIwam} "I hunt east of the city". The "city in the 
east"
   (actually, "city toward the east") or "eastern city" would be the "area-
   eastward city": {chan veng}. Again, if appropriate, the locative suffix
   {-Daq} follows the second noun: {chan vengDaq jIwam} "I hunt in the city in
   the east". The "city's east", meaning "the eastern part of the city", would
   make use of {yoS} "area, district": {veng chan yoS} (literally "city area-
   eastward district" or "city's eastward-area's district"). The directional
   nouns may also be used with possessive suffixes.

So we have {BERLIN chan} "(area) east of Berlin" (e.g. a suburb or the 
outskirts) vs. {chan BERLIN} "the east's Berlin, Berlin in the east, 
eastern Berlin" (i.e. the one east of here [e.g. Moscow in Russia vs. 
Moscow in Idaho).  However WRT to divided cities like Berlin, the best 
option seems to be {BERLIN chan yoS} "Berlin's east, the eastern district 
of Berlin".



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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