tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 29 01:51:05 2003
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Re: KLBC: The years sometimes teach us what the days never know.
- From: Lieven (Quvar valer) <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: The years sometimes teach us what the days never know.
- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:47:52 +0200
Greetings!
I haven't seen your name here before, but since you seem to know a bit about klingon, and the use
of "klbc", I'll skip my introduction.
I'm Quvar, the current BG.
Anyway, remember:
the KLI's Website
http://www.kli.org
the list's FAQ on
http://www.bigfoot.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm
and the constantly growing WikiWeb:
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You wrote:
>A friend and I email each other when we think we've found a bit of
>wisdom. {Sov'a'}? or maybe {Sovna'}?
Good question. Let's look what TKD tells us:
3.3.1 n#1 {-'a'} "augmentative"
This suffix indicates that what the noun refers to is bigger, more important, or more powerful
than it would be without the suffix.
3.3.3. n#3 {-na'} "definite"
It indicates that there is no doubt in the speaker's mind as to the accuracy of his or her choice
of words. Once the Klingon officer referred to above is sure that the object the scanner has found is
a vessel, he might report the presence of {Dujna'} "a definite vessel, undoubtedly a vessel."
You got it?
A beginner has {Sov} ("knowledge") about Klingon, Marc Okrand has {Sov'a'} ("wisdom").
When a newcomer comes and just pretends to speak Klingon, showing three perfect sentences, but
he doesn't know what they mean, nor does he understand them. He then has {SovHey} ("apparent
knowledge").
If someone else can write these same sentences as good as his native language, it's called {Sovna'}
("real knowledge").
roughly...
>The lastest is, "The years sometimes teach us what the days never know."
>
>It sounded a bit Klingon in tone, something that an {'utlh} might pass
>on to a favored {yaS}.
DaH jIyaj. Now I understand.
>I translated it thus:
>{not Dochmey Sovbogh jajmey 'e' rut nughojmoH DISmey}
>
>Literally, "Those things which days never know, sometimes years teach us."
>But it doesn't look right to me.
I can see why.
>1. Maybe {'e'} shouldn't be a pronoun. Instead, make it a marker on
>{Dochmey}?
This seems like you definitely want to use this syllable, but you don't know how. You should
remember that the pronoun {'e'} and the noun suffix {-'e'} are two different things, they just sound
alike.
>2. If the pronoun {'e'} is proper, would this change the second clause
>to {'e' rut maHvaD ghojmoH DISmey} ?
{'e'} as a pronoun refers to the previous sentence, but only with verbs of thinking or so (I think
that...; I see that...; I know that..., etc.)
In your sentence, "Those things which days never know" is not a sentence for itself, it will be
handled just like a noun which is the subject of the verb "teach":
"sometimes years teach us those-things-which-days-never-know."
As a topic-marker on {Dochmey}, it makes it clear that you are talking about those "things", not
about the "days".
{Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey}
"the THINGS which the days don't know"
vs.
{Dochmey Sovbe'bogh jajmey'e'}
"the DAYS which don't know the things"
The rest of your sentence is okay:
{rut nughojmoH DISmey}
"sometimes years teach us"
{Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey rut nughojmoH DISmey}
Unless you want to avoid the situation of a "transitive verb with -moH". This can cause confusion,
and some people like to rephrase this, just like you suggested, with {-vaD}:
{maHvaD Dochmey'e' Sovbe'bogh jajmey ghojmoH DISmey}
I'm still not sure if this is the "perfect" solution. I'm a bit stick with the idea of {ghoj} What's its
object? Let's see what the list says to this. :-)
Quvar
Beginners' Grammarian
ghojwI'pu'wI' vISaH
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