tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 16 10:44:38 2003

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Re: Greetings!

Isawo Tsukada wrote:

Welcome to the list.  I see that the BG has overlooked your message, so 
I'll venture a few suggestions.

>1) Can I use a noun suffix "-oy" with a proper name ?
>     For exanple; "wo'rIvoy", "beylana'oy"

Good question.  There is some slight evidence that we can.

In A.C. Crispin's 1994 novel SAREK, {Pityroy!} is used as an exclamation 
during a romantic encounter.  (The novel's secondary plot followed James T. 
Kirk's nephew Peter, who I believe was studying to become a Klingon expert 
for the Federation diplomatic corps.  Needless to say, being a Kirk, he 
became romantically involved with a beautiful Klingon woman.)  In her 
preface, Crispin thanked Marc Okrand for his - he provided her with a few 
Klingon words and expressions - and she even says that after working with 
him she now knows how to make love in Klingon IIRC.  The problem is the 
non-Okrandian transcription of Peter as {Pityr}.  Did Okrand okay the use 
of {-oy} on a proper name, but Crispin (or her editor) insisted on the 
idiosyncratic spelling, or did Okrand merely tell her about the suffix in 
case she wanted to use it herself?  In other words, did he approve this 
usage or not?

However, in his discussion of {-oy} in TKD and KGT Okrand doesn't say 
whether or not it can be used on a proper noun.  Here are the relevant 
quotations:

   This is an infrequently used, but nonetheless very interesting, noun suffix.
   It is a very peculiar suffix because it is the only suffix that begins with
   a vowel rather than a consonant. (Though there are no examples, it is 
suspected
   that for those few nouns which end in a vowel, /'/ is inserted before this
   suffix.) The suffix usually follows a noun referring to a relative (mother,
   father, etc.), but it could also follow a noun for an animal, especially a
   pet, and means that the speaker is particularly fond of whatever the noun
   refers to. It is strongly suggested that non-native speakers of Klingon
   avoid this suffix unless they know what they are getting into. (TKD, 174)

Examples from TKD were {vavoy} "daddy" and {be'nI'oy} "sis".

   Within the family, a child usually addresses his or her mother as {SoS} 
(Mother)
   and father as {vav} (Father), though it is not uncommon for younger 
children to
   use the words {SoSoy} (Mommy) and {vavoy} (Daddy). These are the regular 
words
   for "mother" and "father" followed by the suffix {-oy}, which indicates
   endearment. Most older children drop the {-oy} around the time of their 
Age of
   Ascension, though some continue to use it even after that, especially when
   addressing the parent of the opposite sex. By the same token, a parent may
   address a son as {puqloDoy} and a daughter as {puqbe'oy}. As with the 
terms for
   parents, the {-oy} form is seldom used past the child's Age of 
Ascension. Though
   almost always heard as terms of direct address (as in {Sosoy jIghung} 
["Mommy,
   I'm hungry"]), kinship terms with the suffix {-oy} are occasionally used as
   subjects or objects of sentences, particularly in the speech of younger 
children.
   For example, a proud child may say, {SuvwI' ghaH vavoy'e'} ("My daddy is 
a warrior").
   The word for "husband" is {loDnal} and that for "wife" is {be'nal}. 
Though there
   are occasional exceptions, for the most part, neither of these words... 
typically
   takes the suffix of endearment {-oy} (as in {be'naloy} ["wifey"]). (KGT, 
198f)

If {-oy} is used on a proper name between romantic partners, It would be 
probably be considered a type of {bang pong} "pet name".  Okrand explains 
their formation:

   A {bang pong} is formed by attaching {-oy}, the suffix indicating 
endearment, to
   an everyday noun. Most of the resulting terms make very little sense to 
anyone
   not in the particular relationship, and none translates well. Some pet 
terms are
   based on words for kinds of food, such as {chatlhoy} and {'awje'oy}. Perhaps
   these words could be rendered in Federation Standard as "soupy" and 
"poppy" (from
   "soda pop"), though neither translation conveys the intimacy and 
intensity of the
   Klingon. Other terms consist of words for weapons plus {-oy}: for 
example: {yanoy},
   {HIchoy}, {tajoy}, {jorwI'oy}. A third type involves body parts, Klingon or
   otherwise, as in {'uSoy}, {'aDoy}, {pIpoy}, {pachoy}. Another term based 
on a
   body part, {Ho'oy}, is one of the few that makes sense to a non-Klingon 
if it is
   remembered that {Ho'} is a slang term for "hero, idol". (KGT, 201)

If this use of {-oy} is possible, remember that {bang pongmey} are private 
and are NEVER uttered in public:

   A {bang pong is usually couple-specific--that is, the set of expressions 
used by
   one couple is different from that used by another couple. Pet names are 
almost
   never uttered unless the two members of the couple are alone and, 
therefore, are
   seldom known by anyone else. Indeed, one of the defining characteristics 
of a
   {bang pong} is that it be secret, known only by the two members of the 
couple.
   (KGT, 199)

>2) Do you translating to tlhIngan Hol "Seven of Nine"?

We've discussed this a few times here on the list.  (You can search the 
List archives at kli.org for details if you're interested.)  As far as I 
know, Okrand has never translating this Borg designation himself.  If you 
use the normal possessive phrase, you wind up with {Hut Soch} "seven of 
nine, the nine's seven" - which can also be read as the two numbers "nine 
seven".  One way around this might be to rephrase it as *{Hutghom Soch} 
"seven of a group-of-nine" or "the group-of-nine's seven".

Perhaps it's easier to call her {Soch mI'} "Number Seven" or, easier still, 
just {Soch} "Seven" - as in fact most of Voyager's crew did after they 
became comfortable working with her.

>     And "Q (Q continuum)"?

Hmm... perhaps *{Q taHtaHghach}?

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