tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 19 16:43:57 2003
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Re: QongDaqDaq
qurgh wrote:
>tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe' 'ej 'e' tob SuStel!
{'ej} is not used when using {'e'} to link clauses:
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe' 'e' tob SuStel!
Sustel proved that I can't speak Klingon.
At least, we've never seen it used this way in the many examples we
have. If you want, make it into two sentences:
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe'. 'ej 'e' tob SuStel!
I can't speak Klingon. And Sustel proved that!
>Hmmm... how do I get across the idea that SuStel proved my belief and he
>is done proving it if I can't put a type 7 on a second verb? It's not my
>not being able to speak that has finished happening, it's the proving...
>
> blah blah 'ej 'e' tobpu' SuStel <= Wrong?
>
>If 'e' is just a pronoun, in a seperate sentance, why can't I put a type 7
>on a verb in the sentence with it?
The short answer is that this is one of those rules that you have to
accept. The longer answer is that {'e'} is not "just" a pronoun, but is
also a type of conjunction when it forms a sentence-as-object (SAO).
Now Okrand writes in TKD that "In complex sentences of this type, the
second verb never takes an aspect suffix" (p. 66). Now it's just possible
- and this is just an idea I'm throwing out - that you can indeed say:
'e' tobpu' SuStel.
Sustel has proven that.
since this by itself is *not* a complex sentence, merely a simple sentence
which is not part of a SAO construction. If so, {'e'} is just a pronoun
here. So, you could either say
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe' 'e' tob SuStel.
Sustel proved that I can't speak Klingon.
or
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe'. 'ej 'e' tobpu' SuStel!
I can't speak Klingon. And Sustel has proven that!
If this isn't kosher, try using {-bej} "definitely, undoubtedly, certainly"
to add the emphasis you're after:
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe' 'e' tobbej SuStel.
Sustel certainly proved that I can't speak Klingon.
A more idiomatic, non-literal translation of this might be:
Sustel has indeed proven that I can't speak Klingon.
--
Voragh "Damage control is easy. Reading Klingon
- that's
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons hard!" (Montgomery
Scott, STIV)