tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Feb 14 14:40:59 2003
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Re: Tao Te Ching Chp. 66
- From: "Agnieszka Solska" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Tao Te Ching Chp. 66
- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:48:35 +0000
jIghItlh:
>That is why the whole world is willing to praise him
>and never tires of doing so.
>mIwvammo' ghaH naDqang qo' Hoch 'ej naDtaHvIS not Doy'choH.
ja' DloraH:
>'ej naDtaHvIS not Doy'choH.
>This doesn't seem right. I haven't come up with an alternative yet but I
>think it needs to be changed
Hmm, how about:
'ej not naDqangbe'choH.
"and it never becomes unwilling to praise him"
jIghItlh:
> vaj nuv DungDaq ratlhqangchugh yajchu'wI' jatlhtaHvIS nuv
>bIngDaq ratlhnIS.
>
> Thus if the sage wishes to be above the people
> he must in his words remain below them.
>
>Yet I wonder ... would this interpretation work?
Some items from Voragh's treasure-chest of words:
>{nIv} "be superior" (v)
>{QIv} "be inferior" (v)
These might be fine except that they make it hard to put the people into the
line:
(?)vaj nuvvaD nIvqangchugh yajchu'wI'
jatlhtaHvIS chaHvaD QIvnIS.
DloraH:
>When I see Dung and bIng I think of the physical relations;
>but without Dung/bIng you lose the connection with the seas and rivers
>being below the valleys.
>Klingon does use the metephors about ceiling/maximum, etc.
Indeed it does.
Voragh:
>AFAIK, these location nouns referring to a physical location haven't been
>used metaphorically. But then, you're translating poetry ...
Hmm, if I use Dung and bIng, the difference between the English and Klingon
version would be that the Klingon rendition of what is a conventional
metaphor in English would be a so-called creative metaphor. But then
creative metaphors are to be expected in a poem. Thank you, guys.
mutungHa'moH mu'meyraj.
jIghItlh:
>ghoHbe'mo' ghaH, ghaHmo' [B] ghoHlaH pagh.
>Since he does not contend, no one can contend against [B] him.
>[B] {ghaHmo'} really means because of him. I hope its meaning can be
> >stretched this way. If not, the line will have to be changed into
> >something like {ghoHbe'mo' ghaH, ghaH jeymeH ghoHlaH pagh.}
DloraH:
>How about qaD?
"qaD" may indeed turn out to be the only sensible option.
The relevant Chinese word "zheng1" can mean "contend, quarrel, resist,
strive, go against, wrangle, contest, compete, dispute". In most cases I
translated it using {ghoH}. E.g
wa'netlh Dol chepmoH bIQ 'ej ghoHbe'.
Water benefits the ten thousand things and does not contend.
or
ghoHbe'lu'chugh DIvbe'lu'.
If there's no contention, there is no guilt.
But here I clearly need a verb that takes an an object. How about:
pagh'e' qaDmo' ghaH, ghaH'e' qaDlaH pagh
'ISqu'
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