tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Apr 20 10:35:00 2003
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Re: qatlh vay' vInuQ :)
From: "...Paul" <[email protected]>
> You don't put any English translations into your messages, so you leave
> them as a challenge to translate.
Actually, the challenge is to respond in kind. Sooner or later you'll be
able to answer *without translating*.
> It's sometimes difficult to know if
> you've correctly conveyed your sentiments, or if you've made a subtle
> error. That's why I tend to translate your words into the "least
> elegant" translation -- because then there's no doubt as to the parts of
> the grammar, both English and Klingon.
vaj muQeHmoH mughchu'be'ghachlIj 'e' vIchaw'be'. 'e' vInID.
> > A better translation would be "A logic challenger and a dissenter are
> > different." Since Klingon doesn't use articles, you need to choose the
best
> > article when translating into English.
>
> My initial reading, I thought you might have been intending something like
> "A challenger's reasons and a dissenter's reasons are different"
That would have been /pIm qaDwI' meq QochwI' meq je/.
> -- ie.
> One offers a contrary opinion to challenge, the other to complain. If
> that was the case, then your Klingon translation would not have been
> correct.
jIjatlhDI' jIjatlhchu' 'e' yIlaj. ghIq jIjatlhHa'chugh HISovmoH. motlh
jIjatlhHa'be'.
> > > One thing I never liked about Klingon was that it was difficult to
tell
> > > between a noun-noun construction and a dual-noun conjunction. The
comma
> > > helps, obviously.
> >
> > yISIQ. 'ej jatlhqu'lu'DI' ngeD mu'tlhegh poj.
>
> "Deal with it. And as soon as one really speaks, sentence analysis will
> be easy." qar'a'?
maj.
> vItlu'pu' net SovlaHbe' vIt Sovbe'lu'chugh. tera'nganvaD Damughchugh
> tlhIngan DajatlhDI' vaj bIlugh 'e' wISovbej. mISvaD bISuD Damughbe'chugh.
>
> "One cannot know if one is telling the truth if one does not know the
> truth. If you translate for Terrans when you speak in Klingon, then we
> will know for certain that you are correct. You risk confusion if you do
> not translate it."
In the above paragraph, use /bImughchugh/ and /bIjatlhDI'/.
/mISvaD bISuD/ means "You risk for the benefit of confusion." That's
probably not what you want. An alternative might be along the lines of
/chaq qaS mIS/ or /chaq mISlu'/.
> The other reason I translate my own stuff into "more elegant English" is
> because I know that sometimes what seems to be the right way to translate
> something on the surface is not always correct. The original statement
> was a perfect example -- a sentence that was pretty much legal, but had
> a greatly different translation when DloraH read it than what you intended
mu'tlhegh qon SuSvaj'e'. vIqonbe'qu' jIH'e'.
> pIj jImuj 'e' vISov. vaj HochvaD jInub.
/nub/ means "be suspect." The word you want is /pIH/ "be suspicious."
You're not suspicious for the benefit of all, and /pIH/ "be suspicious"
probably doesn't take an object (there's another word /pIH/ "expect" which
does), so I'd go with /vaj Hochmo' jIpIH/ "So I am suspicious because of
everything." Another alternative, probably even better, is /vaj mupIHmoH
Hoch/ "So everything makes me suspicious."
> lughbejbe' mu'tlheghwIj 'ej
> lughbejbe' mughta'ghachwIj je. laHwIj vIDubmeH Hol'e' Saja'chuqmoH..
>
> "I know I'm often wrong. So, I'm suspicious of everything. My sentences
> are not certain to be correct and my translations aren't certain to be
> correct either. I start discussions of the language itself to improve
> my abilities." (Okay, I'm really stretching thin on /Saja'chuqmoH/ -- how
> would you say "I discuss the language"?)
Actually, you're pretty close. My pet theory has it that the sentence would
be /Hol'e' maja'chuq/ "We discuss language." /Hol'e'/ is simply the topic
of the sentence, and thus goes before the OVS part of the sentence (just
like any other non-subject, non-object noun). Note: you can't discuss with
yourself; /-chuq/ needs an object indicating plural subjects. /-moH/
doesn't work in there at all.
To say "I start discussions of the language," you might say /jIHmo' Hol'e'
maja'chuqchoH/ or /Hol'e' maja'chuqchoH 'e' vIqaSmoH/.
SuStel
Stardate 3300.8