tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Sep 02 11:05:04 2002

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Names for noun functions (Was: Re: tlhIngan Hol lujatlhbogh puq'e'

At 16:18 02-09-01 +0200, lab tulwI':
>>At 01:41 02-08-31 +0200, lab tulwI'
>>>so my question is:
>>>can we assume that every noun in a klingon sentence has a "role"?
>>Skipping ALL the definitions and names, this by itself is a really 
>>important concept, so I'm going to answer it for the benefit of those 
>>other than tulwI'.
>>The answer is YES.
>>Every noun in a Klingon sentence has a role.  You can't just put a noun 
>>in there somewhere because its meaning is relevant.
>>The noun can be the object of the verb:  _loD_ vIlegh
>>It can be the subject of the verb: yIt _loD_
>>It can describe another noun: yIt _tlhIngan_ loD.
>>It can function as a timestamp _DaHjaj_ yIt loD
>>It can be part of another clause _may'mo'_ yIt loD
>>I don't think that will answer tulwI''s question -- I haven't been 
>>following closely enough to understand tulwI''s question.  But this might 
>>be useful to someone out there lurking.
>what means "lurking"?

Lurking is reading the list, but never (or rarely) posting.  Done by people 
with less  time, fewer opinions, or less confidence than the regular 
posters.  Some people prefer to watch and learn before they subject their 
Klingon to scrutiny.  They don't learn as fast (hint hint).

>i want to have names for those roles. when i called them "nominative", 
>"accusative" and so on (cases), the idea was not very in. so if "roles" 
>are allowed, then we speak of "subject role", "object role".
>are there any shorter names for "describing another noun role"? "genitive" 
>wouldn't be allowed, as this impies case.

I would call them, respectively:
subject noun
object noun
noun acting adjectivally
noun with a type-5 suffix

It might be nice to have a more concise way of describing the third and 
fifth functions, but I managed to teach Klingon (I used to have DloraH's 
job) without that terminology, so you should be able to learn it.  If you 
want to privately to yourself call them "genitive" and "prepositional" no 
one will know.  But if you start trying to discuss them on the list using 
those words, you're going to confuse people, get mired in endless 
meta-discussions (like this one), and have some people ignore you completely.

puSmo' jatlhwI'pu' DubuSHa' wa' nuv DaneHbe'.

laHlIj DaDublaw'lI', 'ej SuStel DalughmoHDI' jIHagh.  (ngo' qan ghap 
Daqel).  bIlughchu' 'ej raghbe'meH Holmaj DughnIS Hoch.  SuStel vIvaq 
vIneHbe'.  jIH mulughmoHbejDI' chu'wI' jIHagh 'e' vItul.

Hoghvam jatlhwI' tlhab vIqIH.  tlhIngan Hol yejHaD ghovchu' 'ach jeS 
neHbe'qu'. pagh muv 'e' maq.  vIlaj.  tlhIbHa'bej nuvvetlhlaH 'ach pIm 
vuDmey.  maHvaD lo'laHbej tlhabwI'pu'.  morghDI' chaH not DItungjaj.  

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