tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 12 14:11:31 2002
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Re: Frasier
peHruS wrote:
> > lenglIj lutebjaj lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov'a' Danobqu'bogh.
> > "May your journey be filled with the same joy, wisdom, and
> > purpose you have given mine."
"May the same pleasure [and] wisdom that you have given to my journey fill
your journey."
>While {lengwIjvaD} would be in the header position for the sentence portion
>{lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov'a' Danob}, this sentence shows that whole sentences
>can be used as the nominative of a larger sentence, w/o any {'e'}
>construction present.
Nominative is a case; you mean the subject.
It's just an extended version of the subject, the noun phrase {bel Sov'a'
[je]} "pleasure and wisdom". {lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov'a' [je]
Danobqu'bogh} "the same pleasure [and] the wisdom which you have given to
my journey" is merely a long relative clause.
Extending the subject step by step is sometimes helpful for beginners:
lenglIj lutebjaj
May they fill your journey
lenglIj lutebjaj <bel, Sov'a' [je]>
May <pleasure [and] wisdom> fill your journey
lenglIj lutebjaj <bel rap, Sov'a' [je]>
May <the same pleasure, [and] wisdom> fill your journey
lenglIj lutebjaj <bel rap, Sov'a' [je] Danobqu'bogh>
May <the same pleasure, [and] wisdom which you have given> fill your journey
lenglIj lutebjaj <lengwIjvaD bel rap, Sov'a' [je] Danobqu'bogh>
May <the same pleasure, [and] wisdom which you have given to my journey>
fill your journey
The object pronoun {'e'} is irrelevant here because one clause is not the
object of the other, but rather the subject.
NOUN + {-vaD} almost invariably appears at the very beginning of the entire
sentence. The only (slight) variations I could find are:
vaj malopmeH tlhIHvaD nob SaSuqpu'
So to celebrate, I've gotten you all a gift. (Hallmark)
wa' Qu'vaD wa' DevwI' tu'lu'
For one mission, there is one leader. (TKW)
I admit we've never seen a phrase containing a NOUN + {-vaD} used in this
way, but there was really no other place Okrand could have put it, given
what the producers gave him to translate.
? lengwIjvaD lenglIj lutebjaj bel, Sov'a' [je]
"May pleasure [and] wisdom fill your journey to/for my journey"
would have been too confusing. I believe that we've seen people
occasionally doing this on the mailing list - and being chastised for it! -
but it's nice to see Okrand do it too.
Now, aside from the missing word {ngoQ} "goal, purpose", I might have
expected to see {bel rap, Sov'a' rap je} for "the same joy and wisdom",
i.e. "the same pleasure and the same wisdom".
Which brings up another question: Is using {je} "and" optional (like
plural suffixes)?
--
Voragh "All the meaning is in the context."
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons (Ilya Kabakov, Russian artist)