tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 28 15:02:34 2002
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Re: adverbials with -Ha'
nuQum stephan:
>>[Voragh] wrote:
>>> Also, remember that some adverbials already
>>> have an unrelated opposite - e.g. {nom} "fast, quickly" vs. {QIt}
>>> "slowly";
>>
>>I should point out that *nomHa' might still be valid -- "not quickly" is
>>not necessarily the same as "slowly". It might mean something between
>>the opposite cases, which gives some control over specificness.
>
>but {Ha'} means the opposite, not simply 'not', doesn't it?
{-Ha]} can also mean to undo something or even to do something wrongly:
This negative suffix implies not merely that something is not done
(as does {-be'}), but that there is a change of state: something that
was previously done is now undone. For convenience, it will here be
translated as "undo", but is closer to the English prefixes mis-, de-,
dis- (as in misunderstand, demystify, disentangle). It is also used if
something is done wrongly. Unlike {-be'}, {-Ha'} can be used in
imperatives.
{chenHa'moHlaH} "it can destroy them"
This verb actually means something like "it can cause them to undo
their form".
{yIchu'Ha'} "disengage it!" (e.g. cloaking device)
{bIjatlhHa'chugh} "if you say the wrong thing"
This shows how {-Ha'} can be used in the sense of "wrongly". The word
might be translated as {if you misspeak}. Using {-be'} (that is,
{bIjatlhbe'chugh}) would mean "if you don't speak".
{Do'Ha'} "it is unfortunate"
The use of {-Ha'} in this sentence suggests a turn of luck from good
to bad. (TKD p.47f)
>{batlhHa'} is 'dishonorably', not 'not honorably'.
That's how Okrand translates it. He introduced it in HolQeD 4.4:
The word for "dishonorably" is {batlhHa'}. This is clearly the adverbial
{batlh} "in an honored fashion" plus a suffix {-Ha'}, which might be
analyzed as the negative suffix that follows verbs or else as a suffix
identical in form (and meaning?) to it, but which appears with adverbials.
Whether this {-Ha'} can be added to all adverbials is not clear.
Examples in context:
batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'
One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW
Qu' buSHa'chugh SuvwI', batlhHa' vangchugh, qoj matlhHa'chugh, pagh ghaH
SuvwI''e'
If a warrior ignores duty, acts dishonorably, or is disloyal, he is
nothing. TKW
Theoretically, {batlhHa'} might also mean "mis-honorably" (e.g. someone
tried to act honorably, but wasn't successful). Note his use of the word
"undo" in TKD, at least WRT verbs: perhaps "dishonorably" in the sense of
*losing* one's honor, not merely not achieving honor {quv chavbe'} it the
first place. Cp. {naDHa'ghach} "discommendation".
>lab DloraH:
>>Another twist, does /batlh bIHeghbe'/ mean "You will not die honorably"
>> - as in: You will die, but it will be dishonorably.
>> - or as: You will continue to live honorably.
>
>i'd say, it means: "you will continue to live honorably". ok, so how say
>the first one?
Well, you can stress the adverbial when speaking, as well as use a suitable
intonation (e.g. say it with a sneer): {*batlhHa'* bIHegh}. In writing,
you can mark it with asterisks or the like, as I've done, or add
{-bej}: {batlhHa' bIHeghbej} "you will definitely die dishonorably". If
you want to be absolutely crystal clear, you need to expand them a bit:
bIHegh, 'ach batlhHa' bIHegh.
You will die, but you will die dishonorably.
batlh bIyIntaH.
You will continue to live honorably.
>apriori with '*': *{batlhbe' bIHegh}
>
>my mistake will be that "be'" doesn't work with adverbs, right?
Correct. But that was the question that started this thread.
Other than {-Ha'} - which Okrand says doesn't work with all adverbials - we
don't know how to modify or fine tune an adverbial. As I've mentioned
earlier, I think that the way to do it is not to look at the adverbial in
isolation, but as part of an adverbial + verb phrase. There are relatively
few Klingon adverbials, but the languages makes up for it with an intricate
series of adverb-type verb suffixes.
This is, of course, something we need to ask Maltz about.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons