tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 14 00:28:27 2002

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Re: KLBC: Re: Saj von Suq Qa'Hom cha'DIch'e'

From: "TPO" <>

 > > ...Soj Suqbogh Qa'Hom'e' 'oH Qa'Hom cha'DIch.

 > This is a trap that has bugged me for a while. There's no /-'e'/ on 
/cha'DIch/, but > there needs to be.

And no reason not to put it there.  Just because an -'e' is required 
following the Pronoun-as-To-Be (PTB) is no reason to forbid it earlier in 
the sentence.

Sogh HoHbogh be''e' ghaH be'nalwI''e'
My wife is the woman who will kill the lieutenant.

Sogh'e' HoHbogh be' ghaH be'nalwI''e'
My wife is the lieutenant whom the woman will kill.

Regarding the trap thing, I disagree that the concept is too alien for 
translation: I am sure many technologies include baited killing traps, and 
the early bird/worm vIttlhegh is not hard to grasp.  It's true that the 
English is funnier because the cultural (cheese + trap = mouse) thing 
allows us to understand the joke without mentioning the trap, but it's 
still valid without a ready-made "bait" food.
I'm mostly confused why the conversation has been bogged down by -'e'.  Why 
so much emphasis on the "it's the .. that" part.  Just say it.

Why not add a little context to make up for the cultural references, and 
say something like:

yotlhDaq ghargh Suq bo'Degh wa'DIch 'ach vonwI'Daq Soj Suq Qa'Hom cha'DIch.

In a field, the first bird gets the worm,
but in a trap the second Qa'Hom gets the food.

I hope that the original poster, qe'San, hasn't lost track of what ghaH has 
learned in all this:

 > qagh Suqjaj vem'eq 'eq 'ach Saj von Suq Qa'Hom cha'DIch'e'

qagh is prepared [though live] food, ghargh is the unprepared worm
Saj is pet; Soj is food - typoes can be VERY confusing in Klingon.
-jaj is only used to express a wish or a toast, not lack of certainty.
Only verbs that already express "be <something>" can be used to modify nouns.

I have no problem whatsoever with /Qa'Hom cha'DIch'e'/ for "the *second* 
whatsit".  It *IS* the subject of the whole sentence, although it's the 
unfortunate and unmentioned first mouse that is left in the mind.

It's actually quite a good sentence, and I encourage qe'San to try:

Death is dark, but you light up my life.
Elvis will never die; he eats too many pickles.

(for extra credit, try: Elvis will never die, because he eats too many pickles)

Qov 'utlh

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