tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 04 16:42:34 2002
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Re: KLBC: chay' mu'meyvam lo'lu'?
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: KLBC: chay' mu'meyvam lo'lu'?
- Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:42:28 EST
jatlh Voragh:
>Sengval:
>: vaj jIQaghlaw'pu'. For some reason I had marked {mev} intransitive in my
>: TKD. Or is it one of these verbs of variable transivity, like {So'}? Can
>: you say {jImev} "I stopped", or {jImev'egh} "I stopped myself", or both?
>
>Yes, though I wouldn't say "verbs of variable transitivity". That makes it
>sound like a third class of verbs altogether.
>
>While transitive verbs can, or even usually, an object (e.g. "I'm reading The
>Klingon Dictionary," "I'm eating gagh"), they don't have to (e.g. "I'm
>reading," "I eat every morning"). In TKD Okrand says that the object-less
set
>of verb prefixes - i.e. jI-, bI-, etc. - are "used when there is no object;
>that is, when the action of the verb affects only the subject (the "doer")"
and
>that they're also used "when an object is possible, but unknown or vague."
>(p.33)
I understand this as it pertains to verbs like {laD} and {Sop}, where the
transitive and intransitive uses do not change the nature of the activity.
Whether {jISop} or {qagh vISop}, I'm still putting something in my mouth.
If you simply told me {mev} was transitive, I'd assume it worked by this same
pattern:
{yaS vImev} "I stop the officer." He's walking by and I grab him by the arm.
{jImev} "I stop (something)." It could be the officer, a ship, or even
myself, but the sentence doesn't make it clear. I would not think this had
the usual meaning of the English "I stop" (I'm walking down the corridor and
then come to a halt), excluding all other meanings.
From the explanations I've heard about {mev} and {So'}, it sounds like they
_do_ behave as a third class of verbs altogether. Unless, when {jImev} is
used to mean "I come to a halt", it really is just the intransitive
counterpart of {vImev} "I stop him", and the meaning is understood to be
{jImev'egh} because that's how it's most often used.
It's the same thing with {So'}. I don't understand why {vISo'} means
something besides me is hidden, but {jISo'} means I am the one who's hidden,
except that it's the way it works in English.
-Sengval