Re: prefix trick (RE: Aw: Re: adverbials)

["qe'San \(temp ADSL email\)" <qeSan@btclick.com>]

Just so Teri doesn't get swamped I've just forwarded the sound files of MO
explaining how to pronounce Ha'DIbaH to Teri

qe'San
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: prefix trick (RE: Aw: Re: adverbials)


> tulwI':
> > >> This is used only in first and second person constructions.
> > >
> > > Does it only apply to 1st & 2nd person constructions because MO has
said
> > > that or because that's as far as canon examples and understanding have
> > > shown.
>
> Both.  If you think about it, the trick wouldn't work because of the
"null"
> prefixes in the third person.  (It would theoretically work with {lu-}
> "they [do something] to him/her/it", but Okrand has told us that it's not
> used in the third person at all.)
>
> DloraH:
> >I believe MO said so, and I think it was on that ST news group, but I
admit
> >I don't know for sure where he said, if he did say it.  canon anybody?
>
> Here's the relevant post:
>
>
> From:       "Marc Okrand" <MarcOkrand@msn.com>
> Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
> Date:       29 Jun 1997
> Subject:    Re: Some quick questions...
>
>    [....]
>
> When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second
> person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second
> person object may be used.  There are other examples of this sort of thing
> with other verbs.  For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension
> says:
>
>    tIqwIj Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] my heart"
>    (tIqwIj "my heart," Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] it")
>
> The pronominal prefix in this phrase is Sa-, which means "I [do something
> to] all of you" in such sentences as:
>
>    Salegh "I see you [plural]"
>
> but when there's already an object (in this case, tIqwIj "my heart"), the
> "object" of the prefix is interpreted as the indirect object, so Sa- means
> "I [do something to] it for you" or the like.
>
> This, then, brings us back to your question.  Since the object of jatlh is
> that which is spoken, and since "you" or "I" or "we" cannot be spoken (and
> therefore cannot be the object of the verb), if the verb is used with a
> pronominal prefix indicating a first- or second-person object, that first
> or second person is the indirect object.
>
> Which is a not very elegant way of saying that qajatlh means "I speak to
> you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you," where "it" is a
> language or a speech or whatever:
>
>    qajatlh "I speak to you"
>
>    Sajatlh "I speak to you [plural]"
>
>    chojatlh "you speak to me"
>
>    tlhIngan Hol qajatlh "I speak Klingon to you"
>    (tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," qajatlh "I speak it to you")
>
>
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>